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Court Ruling in Mud Pond paddling case

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  • Court Ruling in Mud Pond paddling case

    Just saw that the appellate court announced a decision in the case of Phil Brown vs the owners of Mud Pond.
    I know a few people on here were discussing it recently.

    Here's the article.

    https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...-paddling-case

  • #2
    Thanks for your post, Learning the Trails! Interesting court case for sure. Six months ago I probably would have passed by your post, or just given it a brief glance. But after my first paddling trip of the Bog River Flow/Lows Lake area with some old college buddies this last September, I am now hooked on canoe camping and had to research further if these waterbodies were somehow connected (possibly via Lake Lila?)

    The Bog River/ Lows Lake paddling was incredibly beautiful and turned out to be an epic camping trip that I'll remember to my last breathes. We camped out at the "Virgin Timber Landing" camping spot (which is amazing) and hiked Grass Pond Mountain for the spectacular views it provides. The trip had such an impact on me that currently l'm looking to buy my first used canoe setup and some initial gear to get started. If anybody has sage advice in that regard then please pass it along.
    Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul!

    Comment


    • #3
      LemonH - canoes frequently show up locally on Craigslist.
      Or you can check with local outfitters for new or used rentals.
      Try Macscanoe, http://www.macscanoe.com/macs.html
      or Raquette River Outfitters, https://raquetteriveroutfitters.com
      or St Regis Canoe outfitters, https://www.canoeoutfitters.com
      or Mountman Outdoors, http://www.mountainmanoutdoors.com/paddlesports.html

      There will be others if you look around.

      I've been paddling, camping and backcountry hiking while training wilderness guides at Lows annually for almost 30 years.
      "Leave the beaten track behind occasionally and dive into the woods. Every time you do you will be certain to find something you have never seen before." - Alexander Graham Bell

      Comment


      • lemonhead24
        lemonhead24 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the links! I've been searching craigslist and facebook marketplace and have found a couple boats I'm interested in. I was probably going to pick up a used Old Town to start. My kids are still pretty young (7, 5, 3 yo) so that's my major concern. Obviously we are going to need multiple boats to do family adventures but I'm not sure how to most efficiently deal with the odd number of 5 people and all the necessary gear to do a couple overnights.

    • #4
      This ruling is a little concerning. While I've always been a defender of the idea that private land means just that: private land, this could have some significant impacts on future accessibility of isolated public lands in the ADK. In the big waterways dispute of the 90s it was determined that "navigable in-fact" can be determined by recreational use, and that landowners ought not to restrict access to public lands via usable waterways. This case was left partially undetermined sometime around the year 2k, but the public was left with a "common understanding" that waterways are to be considered public highways where navigable. It will be interesting to see where this ends up going when all is said and done
      My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by FlyFishingandBeer View Post
        This ruling is a little concerning. While I've always been a defender of the idea that private land means just that: private land, this could have some significant impacts on future accessibility of isolated public lands in the ADK. In the big waterways dispute of the 90s it was determined that "navigable in-fact" can be determined by recreational use, and that landowners ought not to restrict access to public lands via usable waterways. This case was left partially undetermined sometime around the year 2k, but the public was left with a "common understanding" that waterways are to be considered public highways where navigable. It will be interesting to see where this ends up going when all is said and done
        The Albany Times Union had an article on the decision. There is a thread on ADKFORUM too.
        https://www.timesunion.com/7dayarchi...e-13484633.php

        But rather than looking at the trade publications check out the original decision that opened up the waterway. It was not unanimous. Judge Rose dissented. That's where I looked for clues until Judge Aulisi's decision is public.

        http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3ds...2015_00420.htm

        Don

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        • #6
          Some good points in http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=25738 (thanks Don)
          ADK 46/46W + MacNaughton, Grid 262/552
          Photos & Stuff

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          • #7
            User attrail on the ADKForum sent me this link. Source is Adirondack Explorer, which is obvious from the link

            https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/w...ision-2018.pdf

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            • #8
              Hear the Footsteps Thanks for posting that. This definitely sheds new light on the situation, especially the part about the defendant intentionally avoiding the established DEC carry trail, knowing that he'd have to portage anyway. TBH, I don't see too much of an issue with the court's ruling in this situation. I'd love to know what other folks think of this.
              My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by FlyFishingandBeer View Post
                Hear the Footsteps Thanks for posting that. This definitely sheds new light on the situation, especially the part about the defendant intentionally avoiding the established DEC carry trail, knowing that he'd have to portage anyway. TBH, I don't see too much of an issue with the court's ruling in this situation. I'd love to know what other folks think of this.
                Pretty much.

                Given the recent troubles at Owl's Head and Little Porter Mountain, hard to blame the landowners for not inviting the public there.
                ADK 46/46W + MacNaughton, Grid 262/552
                Photos & Stuff

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by FlyFishingandBeer View Post
                  Hear the Footsteps Thanks for posting that. This definitely sheds new light on the situation, especially the part about the defendant intentionally avoiding the established DEC carry trail, knowing that he'd have to portage anyway. TBH, I don't see too much of an issue with the court's ruling in this situation. I'd love to know what other folks think of this.
                  I'd say I got more interested in the reading the decisions and went on to the "Adirondack League v Sierra Club" case.
                  https://govt.westlaw.com/nyofficial/...rondack+League

                  One thing I did conclude is that by reading these decisions a result might be expanding your vocabulary for so many words I've rarely used are used in context. The dissent especially valuable for this. And if I just focus on just one word found, nettlesome and bring it into the context of the forum. As a hiker in the Catskills the meaning is certainly appreciated as follows. The brief definition of nettlesome: causing annoyance or difficulty is very true if not understated when I think of the few times I had to ford a through a field of nettles. A particular instance was descending along the drainage below Halcott, (or Hawkit is it said locally) where I confronted with a wide field of them, went through, and got pierced by thousands of tiny needles in the process.

                  Don

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                  • FlyFishingandBeer
                    FlyFishingandBeer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Likewise. This case sent me down a legal "clickhole" which also led me back to the ADK League v. Sierra Club. Definitely some dense reading in there. While I wasn't even remotely involved or interested in ADK politics or legal happenings at the time, I remember that case vividly because of the camp arsons.
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