AMR Post Nov 1 and Corey's Rd Gate for Winter

[Hoser]

Although its 62 degrees here in the SW Adirondacks, looking forward to winter adventures. Couple related topic questions:

1) Are the AMR parking/reservation plans known for Nov 1 and beyond? I understand the reservation system pauses on Oct 31, so more importantly, will the current size of lot remain consistent, or will they reduce back to last winter's numbers (less than 30 I believe). In other words, will parking on Tuesday Oct 26 actually be easier than Tuesday Nov 2?

2) The Corey's Rd gate: a) when does this normally close (Dec 1?) b) Rumor the closure alternates years? If so, is this upcoming winter an open year, or a closed year? c) If so, why does this occur? d) How much distance is added each way when its closed?

Thanks!

[gebby]

I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I'm betting that as of 11/1 they are going to drop that parking lot right down to 28 spaces like last year. As far as Corey's Road, it is supposed to alternate years, open and closed, but sometimes it's closed two years in a row and sometimes it's open two years in a row. I think it adds three miles each way for a total of six. You might want to call the ranger who covers the area to see what the deal is this year.

[gebby]

MTVhike you'll have to ask them. I'm just reporting what I experienced last year, that they allowed the minimum numbers of cars in their lot last winter.

[greatexpectations]

this is a friendly reminder that the easement still only requires 20 parking spaces. if the lot does indeed get 'shrunk' to 28 spaces for the winter it could be a matter of winter maintenance costs. i'm pretty sure the cost of parking at the garden is what pays to maintain that lot during the winter.

[Hoser]

28 or 20.....awesome. Without being able to use the spaces up the hill once AMR and Roaring Brook fillup, here we go again....wake up another hour earlier to beat your fellow hiker to a legal parking spot. Not looking forward to winter weekends in this area. Sigh. I have midweek freedom, but my hiking partners do not. I am ok with paying $5 for parking six months a year (or 12) to get the full lot available the remaining 6 months.

[Hear the Footsteps]

Corey’s Rd gate should be open at least through Regular Hunting season which is Dec 5 for Corey’s Rd. Then add some time for hunters to break camp. On a trip last month I saw several camps set up. More camps than last year. And last year to every hikers disappointment the gate was closed very soon after deer season. I took it as camps emptied out quickly.

I don’t think there is a method to determining closing time. When there was logging the road was closed. On a weekday you could expect seeing the logging trucks.

[DSettahr]

To my knowledge, someone once made an offhand comment that it "seemed like" Corey's Road was open every other year, and the hiking community took it as gospel. I'm not aware of any official such rule/policy in place. The determining factor, as I understand it, has been whether there has been winter tree harvests planned within the boundaries of the private Ampersand Lake property that winter or not.

[tgoodwin]

I think one must now expect the gate to be closed every year for the winter. As use increased, the parking apparently spilled out into the road, which made it difficult for the logging trucks to get by - remember, they're bigger than passenger cars. Hence the loggers now have to stop and unlock the gate, and then relock it after they pass through. This was a step that wasn't needed if the gate remained open; but recent experience with trailhead parking dictated the extra step to avoid problems with passage at the trailhead.

These are just my observations from earlier years when the gate was locked and one could ski the road. Now, it appears the gate is locked even though the road is plowed. I await, and will accept, any corrections to my suppositions on current gate management.

[Hear the Footsteps]

I'd wondered if the road is closed because the land owner wants it closed.

But I've found through the DEC Info Locator map portal that the road is shown as a DEC road up to the drive that goes into summer trailhead parking. Difficult to see the color legend in the picture and no way to send a link with this zoom-in.

[Hoser]

Update to both from what I learned this week:

- Spoke to "gatekeeper" at AMR yesterday Oct 28. At the gate to lake rd, not the parking gate. I specifically asked about winter plans and a reduction, he said as far as he knows, no plan to reduce size. He also added no way to "cut down" the lot size, except for poor plowing. This makes sense, as the lot is no longer divided as in years past. This could be a good sign for this winter.

- Called DEC on the Corey's Rd gate closure. Basically ranger said "its too early to tell" I asked probing questions, there is no set date, no "every other year" or no solid plan. I asked when we would know about a Jan or Feb trip. He said 9 out of 10 chances its closed. He said best to ski in from winter lot if closed. Was not sure if would be plowed b/t winter lot and summer lot even if gate closed. Very ambigious, sounds like there is definately not a plan. He said "it depends" a couple times. Some of that weather based, other not sure what based. Looks like we'll have to monitor real time and plan for the six miles all winter and maybe luck out early season. Please share any other learnings.

[DSettahr]

The county tax maps show it as a public municipal road, which means it is not a DEC road. I don't think it's really the DEC's decision in any way whether the road is plowed and/or the gate is open, and the DEC presumably is not responsible for plowing it even when it is plowed. So it also makes sense that the DEC might not necessarily be aware of what the plan is this early in the season, as it's not their road, nor their decision, nor their responsibility to keep it plowed in the event that it is plowed.

Best to hope for the best but plan for the worst- an added several miles of skiing/snowshoeing just to get to the trailhead.

[Hear the Footsteps]

Interesting DEC Info Tracker shows it's a DEC Road. The Portal also has an e-mail address. I'll email to there my inquiry.

BTW, I tested the app with Gulf Brook Road. You can open the map, zoom to the location, and toggle the checkbox. The dashed line corresponding to DEC roads is there and not there doing that.

My questions to them after an introduction:
1) What is the definition of a DEC Road
2) Is the section for Corey's road an error [being shown as a DEC road] in DEC InfoLocator.

[DSettahr]

I could be wrong on Coreys Road but FWIW, the DECInfo the database is full of known errors. A few definite examples:

• 5 lean-tos are still shown at Marcy Dam. There's only been 3 there for a few years now.
• The Indian Pass Trail between Upper Works and the junction with the Preston Ponds trail is incorrectly shown. DECInfo shows the old trail that hasn't existed in decades, the new trail swings further east.
• The Bradley Pond Trail is shown as connecting to the Preston Ponds Trail between Upper and Lower Preston Ponds, rather than at Duck Hole where it actually terminates. (This is a planned re-route that does not yet exist that somehow made it into the "official" database of existing trails.)
• All of the designated tent sites at Marcy Dam are missing (there's a couple dozen or so).
• All of the designated tent sites on Long Lake are missing.
• 2 lean-tos are still shown at Bushnell Falls- there's only 1 there now. And the new Chicken Coop Brook Lean-to, which was built a few years ago now, is missing.
• The trail between Averyville Road and Pine Pond is completely missing.
• The herd paths up Redfield, Marshall, and Seymour are shown as trails, without any indication that they are unmarked and unmaintained. Same with some of the herd paths in the Dix Range (but not all).
• A bunch of the designated tent sites at Lake Colden are missing, and the one on the east side of the lake is erroneously shown in the wrong spot.
• All of the designated tent sites at both the Feldspar and the Uphill Lean-tos are missing.
• All of the designated tent sites in the Johns Brook Valley are missing.
• All of the designated tent sites at Raquette Falls are missing.
• The horse trail between Coreys Road and the Ward Brook Truck Trail is shown as being closed to horseback riding use.
• Newcomb Lake site #1 is shown in the wrong spot (not even close).
• The Ampersand Mountain Trail is shown as starting in the wrong spot- the better par of a mile down the road from the actual trailhead.

And so on... these are all the mistakes I observed within a few minutes of browsing the map info shown for the High Peaks region only. Suffice to say that DECInfo should not be treated as an absolutely accurate source of information.

My assumption would be that a DEC road is any road that falls on a parcel of land owned by NY State and under the jurisdiction of the DEC. This is as opposed to any road that falls within a public highway right of way (different than a parcel of land).

You can view the Franklin County Tax Maps here. If you zoom in on the Coreys Road, you can see that it falls outside of any parcels of "ownable" land, and rather lies within a corridor outside of any parcel. In contrast, if you look at Gulf Brook Road on the Essex County Tax Maps, you will see that it falls within a parcel, and if you click on that parcel, the owner is listed as "New York State."

EDIT: While browsing around the tax maps and comparing them to other "DEC Roads" shown in the DECInfo database, this supposition appears to hold up- most of the DEC Roads fall on parcels of land owned by New York State, rather than in road ROWs outside of any "ownable" parcel of land.

[BillB]

I spoke with with a ranger (Burns?) last year regarding Corey's Road. He said logging, and thus closure, depends on economics. If the cost of pulpwood is such that it makes economic sense to log, they will log and the gate will be closed. I'm not saying this is gospel, just reporting what I was told. I've generally found the "every other year" closure to be true, but know that nothing is certain.

[gebby]

I've spoken to Ranger Burns about conditions up there on the phone. Very accessible guy and he will poke fun at you on the phone! :P I think I said something like, "It might snow" and he was like "Up here? Really? Where did you hear that?" or some such!

[sherbi]

What about the garden, plowed this winter?

[Hear the Footsteps]

What about the garden, plowed this winter?

The Garden gets plowed.

[TFR]

I could be wrong on Coreys Road but FWIW, the DECInfo the database is full of known errors. A few definite examples:[LIST][*]5 lean-tos are still shown at Marcy Dam. There's only been 3 there for a few years now.

Not directly related, but the signage they have (at least here in the Catskills) leaves much to be desired. My quip is that the signs are there to teach you not to believe them!

[Redtail]

Headed in to spend a night in the Seward Range on Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Is there any update on:

1. Corey's Road being open or closed?
2. Snow conditions/depth - hoping to pull a pulk rather than carry all the overnight gear.

Thank all for any intel.

DVDV

[moosebeware]

Yes. Corey's Road is open this winter. Will not close the gate until mud season starts.

[Cold River Bob]

As of yesterday I talked to a friend who lives on Corey's road an they have just a couple of inches of snow on the ground