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  • And a permit system was implemented

    Here we go...

    https://www.northcountrypublicradio....-a-reservation
    My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

  • #2
    70 spots so they are opening back up the full lot about time, however I don’t like this at all, so much for the spur of the moment trips or I will just have to go somwehere else to hike. This will lead to an Increase of people going to that garden and loj parking this doesn’t seem like a good fix to me at all

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    • #3
      Way too many restrictions on it. You can't even be dropped off.

      Sad to see the state cave in like this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Rmxfiles View Post
        70 spots so they are opening back up the full lot about time,
        the full lot and maybe a little more. was the old total 70? that feels a little high. or maybe having assigned spots will allow for more efficient use of space.

        Originally posted by Learning The Trails View Post
        Way too many restrictions on it. You can't even be dropped off.
        i agree that not allowing walk-ups is confusing. but allowing dropping off seems like an obvious mess without a shuttle system. things will very quickly back up during the busy times and the traffic this is supposed to help alleviate will get arguably worse.

        Comment


        • #5
          So much for Seggos saying that permits would be a last resort. It would appear the monied Ausable Club members again have their way with the DEC, no doubt due to their easy access to lobby state officials. And this after their report said that not concentrating the use will probably have worse effects on the Adirondacks. No doubt there will be people looking to bushwhack over via the route to Dial and Nippletop that dog owners use in their pursuit of the 46 and you are going to get people heading that way that don't know the first thing about bushwhacking and I bet we'll see rescues in that area increase.

          Comment


          • #6
            How are supposed to make a reservation when you don’t know what the weather will be like that day? Are they going to limit the number of drop off reservations also? This is very frustrating to me.

            Comment


            • Mike P.
              Mike P. commented
              Editing a comment
              I would think you might get people on bad weather days going into conditions they are not capable of handling because they had a reservation.

          • #7
            The optics are ugly. "Wealthy, exclusive club sick of hikers messing up their golf games implement parking permit system." At least that's how reddit is interpreting it. My assumption about the restrictions on walking or biking to the lot is that they are trying to solve the parking issues along 73. By allowing people to walk onto the property without a reservation, they've done nothing. If it weren't for those restrictions, you could still park anywhere along 73 and walk or ride your bike to the lot, which is what 95% of the hikers through the AMR are doing anyway.
            Last edited by MediumChris; 03-29-2021, 03:42 PM. Reason: Clarification

            Comment


            • greatexpectations
              greatexpectations commented
              Editing a comment
              that is how i read it too, that the issue is not so much walk-ins so much as where those walk-ins are themselves parking. to me this just points toward expanding a shuttle system.

            • Hear the Footsteps
              Hear the Footsteps commented
              Editing a comment
              To quote....."Hikers getting dropped off or arriving by bus or bike must also make a reservation in advance" Doesn't say if arriving by shuttle that a reservation is included.

              And reservations not via public system like for the Catskills Blue Hole. "The new Hiker Reservation web portal, hikeamr.org."

              Curious now how this will be actively managed and if DEC (taxpayers) will share the costs.

            • gebby
              gebby commented
              Editing a comment
              Hear the Footsteps I wondered about the cost of managing that parking lot as well. They will clearly need to have a presence there of someone monitoring who is parking and if they have a permit and all the aggravation that means. I wouldn't take that job. And what is going to prevent people from showing up at 3 AM and walking in? How do you regulate the people who will show up and try to go in after hours or the expected increase in camping this change will make?

          • #8
            That’s a bummer. But not a surprise. Last time I was in that lot, pigs had left trash, discarded clothes, discarded food, beer bottles and human s**t behind the privy. What the hell did you expect they’d do? They’ve had the good grace to put up with slovenly behaviour on the part of hikers for years. Remember in grade 1 when the class brat got us all punished and we missed recess? Well, here’s the hiking version.
            Dont blame the swells of the AC, blame the irresponsible hikers.

            Anybody else here old enough to remember when the landowner closed the Interbrook Trail as the official start to the Great Range? Anyone remember why?
            Slob hikers, that’s why.

            Anyway, hike into Noonmark from Round Pond, whack over to the west shoulder, then off you go via Bear Den and beyond.

            There’s always a way when there’s a will.
            Last edited by Charlene 2.0; 03-29-2021, 04:23 PM.

            Comment


            • Fat Man Hiking
              Fat Man Hiking commented
              Editing a comment
              Exactly what I was thinking. Slobs have wrecked it for the rest of us.

          • #9
            Well I don’t have a huge problem with the parking reservation / permit. Limiting permits to only cars/bikes does seem counterintuitive to the whole shuttle initiative. I get that it is an attempt to keep people from parking along 73 but now they will just move up to the Dix/Round pond trail and park there.
            also wondering if it will be challenged as to the legality to closing access to hikers considering the public easement.
            "Climbing is about freedom. There's no prize money; there are no gold medals. The mountains are all about going there to do what you want to do. That's why I'll never tell anyone else how to climb. All I can say is, This is how I prefer to do it."
            Ed Viesturs

            Comment


            • FlyFishingandBeer
              FlyFishingandBeer commented
              Editing a comment
              I agree, Jack. Private parking lot = private owner's rules. The part that gets me, as you said, is how limiting public access to the public easement is going to hold up. I know of at least one really good lawyer/avid ADK outdoorsman who hit the books immediately after the announcement was made. Any progress at reversing this part of their decision will be slow at best, unlikely in reality. That little section of verbiage stating that either the club or the DEC may see fit to restrict access if necessary is going to be tough to beat.

          • #10
            NYSDEC's announcement.

            DEC and Adirondack Mountain Reserve to Pilot New Reservation System in 2021 (govdelivery.com)

            Comment


            • #11
              Sadly, Seggos = government liar. Get used to it.

              Also sadly, this will degrade, not improve public safety.

              Locals and Rangers better plan on HEAVY use of Gravestone Brook, Pinnacle Ridge, and the Great Range trail from Roostercomb parking.

              Comment


              • gebby
                gebby commented
                Editing a comment
                He rolled over pretty quick from "permits are a last resort" to this!

              • Commissionpoint
                Commissionpoint commented
                Editing a comment
                Gravestone Brook is going to get destroyed. Instead of the nice sustainable hardened route on the Lake Road that could literally handle thousands of walkers daily, several dozen people a week are now going to turn Gravestone into a mess in a short few seasons under this new plan. What a disaster.

            • #12
              I’m pleased the total available spots will be seventy. I’ll try to hold judgement until I see how it works. I’m concerned about hikers booking spots to secure them regardless of their full commitment to use them on any given day. AMR is not apt to care if the lots are underutilized.

              Comment


              • Makwa
                Makwa commented
                Editing a comment
                That is exactly what will happen. People will hoard the reservations on the off chance they end up hiking that day. Then there will be environmental groups hoarding reservations and not using them so that the foot traffic is decreased. Far-fetched you say? I'd bet on it.

              • gebby
                gebby commented
                Editing a comment
                Makwa. Good point on environmental groups, Ausable Club members, heck Willie Janeway registering to hold spots in the lot that will go unfilled and access limited further! How do they intend to verify a registrant is a actual hiker intending to hike? Watch what happens if hikers get wise and start carpooling with six or seven in a car and watch them then restrict numbers of hikers and not just numbers of cars!

              • MediumChris
                MediumChris commented
                Editing a comment
                I car camp at state parks with my kids a lot and this is exactly what happens. All the desirable sites (and the undesirable ones for that matter) are gone hours after the reservation window opens. Then you actually get to the park and those coveted sites sit empty, especially if the forecast isn't great. I expect the same thing to happen here.

            • #13
              70 for the day... TOTAL? So I hike Noonmark at 7 am and make it back to my car and leave by noon. Nobody else can use my spot and hike Noonmark or Indian Head or any other of the dozen or so destinations that are easily doable in a few hours that afternoon?

              How far in advance can reservations be made?

              And what of folks who intend on camping overnight? They are sucking up two days worth of permits. Seems rather selfish. Will there be an unintended culture war that ensues between day hikers and campers?

              Who enforces the parking? Let's say I show up with a reservation and the lot is full... my day is ruined, right? The time it will take to find the offending vehicle and get it towed delays me far too long. What if there are 3 or 4 or 5 cars that need towing? How many damn tow trucks are in Keene Valley? And when are cars towed at the end of the night? If I'm delayed, injured, etc will I find that my car is gone once I make it back to the parking area?

              Can I start at the Garden, walk over the Great Range, and exit at AMR? Or are they gonna police people walking out of there too?

              This system all but kills visitation to Indian Head, Noonmark, all the waterfalls along Lake Road, Cathedral Rocks, etc. The reservations will be monopolized by folks hiking the High Peaks and every family or smaller hike won't see any traffic anymore. No more tourists making a last minute decision about a short hike on the property.

              Any special access for local folks who are taking a morning stroll or getting their daily exercise?

              Last two observations/ predictions and I'll shut up... 1) fewer people going thru Keene Valley will hurt the local businesses and 2) there will be days when the weather would normally dictate cancelling a hike but people will go because they have a reservation in hand. There will be summit fever before you even leave your own house to drive to your hike. People will get hurt. There will be rescues in bad conditions. And it will all be because people were inconvenienced by a permit system and didn't want to have to get another one for another day.

              Comment


              • Charlene 2.0
                Charlene 2.0 commented
                Editing a comment
                Don’t think you’ll see a drop in visits to Keene Valley. Puh-lenty of lovely short hikes to be had, as in, lots, don’t think families will be bereft of short hike choices just because Cathedral Rocks is off the table.
                Which may be the point. The High Peaks are but a fraction of the hiking possibilities there.

              • moosebeware
                moosebeware commented
                Editing a comment
                Makwa that was my question too...I have a thru hike planned this summer that exits at the AMR. Do I need a permit now even though I will not take up a parking spot??

              • MtnManJohn
                MtnManJohn commented
                Editing a comment
                There are always negative consequences to things (ie. no free lunch). I also foresee instances of SARs for the unprepared trying to whack up Gravestone Brook or from Noonmark to Bear Den (a horrid whack, I am told), or trekking over to Blake and Colvin over Pinnacle Ridge hardly realizing there are no water sources along that arduous ridge.

                As for other places to hike in the High Peaks region (if not elsewhere in the Adirondacks), well, we now have the problem of pushing the density of hikers to other places. That's already happening with the SL6er peaks and even in the Jay Mountain range - to name a few. I did not hike much in the High Peaks last summer and of the times I did, I wish I had gone elsewhere.

                Back to Gravestone Brook: wouldn't be surprised to see illegal cuttings or a well-established herdpath forming along it to the Dial-Nippletop Ridge. I remember when the SL6er first started, there wasn't much of a discernable herdpath to Haystack from the Jackrabbit trail. Now, its much more established than a marked trail!

            • #14
              Exactly it said permits can be placed two weeks in advance but who knows what the weather will be like for that day. I sometimes plan a trip just a couple days before guess I can’t do that any more. How many people are they going to allow from the shuttles? This has the potential to be a disaster just my opinion

              Comment


              • MJK
                MJK commented
                Editing a comment
                I wouldn't worry. In NH the AMC huts need advance reservations worth $100's, and I think that's only killed 2 or 3 people over the years. People die all the time, y'know.

              • moosebeware
                moosebeware commented
                Editing a comment
                There are no allowances for shuttles, only from two bus companies. Any walk-ins otherwise would be deducted from the parking allotment of 70 spaces.

            • #15
              @makawa ”Can I start at the Garden, walk over the Great Range, and exit at AMR? Or are they gonna police people walking out of there too?“

              I predict there will be patrols on trails asking to see permits just enough to get the news out that you are not welcome to bushwhack into the AMR property.

              We suspected this was coming so we finished our winter pursuits that use Lake Road approach this season.

              Still, it irks me when wealthy people use their money to create false “justification” of their actions (dubious “survey data” and hand-picked focus groups served up to the media) and wield influence over public institutions to take actions that benefit primarily the wealthy.

              Pilot-shmilot. Watch the permit process spread with its AMR DNA.

              Yes, I am particularly salty about this.


              46/46, 20/46w "I only went out for a walk, and concluded to stay out till sundown, for going out, I found, was really going in." John Muir

              Comment


              • moosebeware
                moosebeware commented
                Editing a comment
                First, you present your permit, then once you are deemed worthy you get a pass and must carry that with you at all times. Sounds a little totalitarian to me.
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