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ADK Takes Stance on High Peaks Use Recommendations

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  • Groundpounder
    commented on 's reply
    During my first two trips to the ADKs, 15+ years ago, I flaunted the rules by camping either too close to a trail, or a slight distance away from the designated site (Sno-Bird). The first time was my first trip ever. Myself and two friends arrived around 11 p.m. and tried to find the tentsite on the map below Roaring Brook falls, but gave up in the darkness and camped about 30 feet off the side of the trail (there is now a no camping sign in that general area). Had openstreetmap existed back then, we'd have known where to go (crossing the brook). The Sno-Bird incident was because we got there in the evening, with full packs, and the people at the actual site took up 3 spaces with 2 tents. With daylight waning, and no easy alternative, we camped in the woods just beyond the site. Since that trip, I realized that full packs over peaks took much longer than I thought, so ever since then I was much more conservative with planning.

    I was in the military, and I had fairly strict parents to boot. I am conditioned to follow rules and feel uneasy when breaking them. I made it a point to educate myself and not put myself in those kinds of positions again. With the proliferation of the internet there is no excuse not to do so. The information is out there. Back then, all we really had was a map and a guide book...the internet was still kind of coming into it's own. I highly doubt I'd have ever finished my 46 if it wasn't for openstreetmaps (precise tentsite locations) or good online info about all of the different trailheads. Driving from a distance and camping each time it was a tremendous help for me.

  • gebby
    replied
    With the pandemic and vacations cancelled everywhere, people are looking to travel locally and sometimes not so locally and they have cast their eyes towards the Adirondacks and other mountain refuges. It's a shame that at the same time, many volunteer activities have shut down, for fear of volunteers contracting the virus. :( It's quite clear that the influence of people who know how to give good advice to many of these newbies is sorely missed.

    Leave a comment:


  • tcd
    replied
    These are important observations, based on real experience, that are completely lost in Albany (and at ADK). These lead to a couple things:

    >You have to understand the user population. Imagining a user population based on a document from 1970 results in misguided management actions.

    >No one reads signs. Signs don't work. Forget about stop signs, stop spending money on signs, stop imagining that you have taken any kind of "management action" because you put up more signs. What is needed is more in-person trailhead education. Of course there will be some people for whom that doesn't work either. But studies show that a person at the trailhead delivering "the message" will reach a large proportion of the group that does not "play well" now.

    Personally, when there is a problem area, I am really annoyed when I see a "sign project" occur. (Best recent example: the "Dig It!" signs erected a couple years ago.) The problem with signs goes beyond the fact they they don't work. The problem is that someone in an office in Albany (or perhaps Lake George) is patting themselves on the back, saying "Look, we took action! Now we can let this problem fester and not try to fix it for another 5-10 years, by which time it will be somebody else's problem."

    Leave a comment:


  • Groundpounder
    replied
    As I've aged...and, in part, due to my job as an environmental regulator (in PA)...I've learned there is a group of people that try their best to follow the rules, and then there are those that don't. A gazillion signs at the trailheads won't affect them at all. It's just how it is. Some people try, some people say screw it.

    I think it's an innate kind of thing. The people that flaunt the rules may or may not change over time. Not that my opinion means anything, but I do give quarter to those on their first trip or two to the high peaks that make mistakes. We've all had an "I didn't know" moment, I'm sure. It's what happens afterward that matters. There will be those that say to themselves, "Whatever, I got away with it last time." There will also be those that say, "Hell, I didn't know, but I'll do the right thing next time."

    Leave a comment:


  • ILikeRocks
    commented on 's reply
    I’m fine with filling out a permit to register and educate. Im firmly in the camp that we as NYS residents pay More than our fair share in taxes to fund public programs.

  • Bunchberry
    commented on 's reply
    Unless people are upset about the dead bear and have a need to fix, I am not interested.

  • Bunchberry
    commented on 's reply
    This would drill into people's heads that bear cans are needed and make enforcement easy with a real teeth. In addition when you get the permit you can educate people. In addition if I have a permit for a leanto I can relax and hike my hike and not worry that if I get to Lake Colden there is no place for me to camp.

  • Makwa
    commented on 's reply
    Didn't those people have a bear can? I thought the story was they were transferring food from the canister to their packs when the bear rushed in. Permits won't do anything to prevent that from happening again. And you can enact/enforce any regs you want regarding camping/ food storage. Permits aren't needed for that. All that aside I probably agree that permits would be an OK idea in the areas you noted if for no other reason than to control the crowd. But then that just requires Rangers to enforce the permits and would likely spread campers out into illegal sites nearby. I fear the Adirondacks have been so crowded in certain places at certain times that there isn't going to be a solution that solves the issue without upsetting a lot of people. The time to work on this was years ago as it first became evident there was an uptick in visitation. The changes could have been rolled out gradually or tested to see what the effect was. Now doing anything will drive visitors away. Complex issue.

  • Bunchberry
    replied
    I think there should be a permit system for camping in the Marcy Dam and Colden and John's brook area.

    The goal of this would be bear preservation. The death of that last bear and all the stories of people doing a bad job with their food put me over the edge.

    When you buy a permit, you get a permit and you get a sticker for your bear can too.

    If you are camping without that bear can you get a 3 year ban and a fine.


    Leave a comment:


  • Hear the Footsteps
    replied
    Regardless of whether you think the ADK is managing a divide between their donors and their members, at least they put something on record different than Peter Bauer's. In some of the articles I've read by him you'd think he thinks he's the spokesperson for the High Peaks Advisory Group.

    Don

    Leave a comment:


  • gebby
    replied
    I'm with tcd If they came down on the side of permits, before they came down on the side of demanding the state hire more rangers and invest in infrastructure, I am sure they would see a drop in contributions.

    Leave a comment:


  • tcd
    replied
    Yeah pretty reasonable...today.

    But as I've pointed out before, you'll get whiplash trying to follow ADK's position on these things.

    They try to align with the big money "green" groups out of NYC, to get money to survive. Then, every now and then they suddenly realize that these folks are going to chase all their members out of the woods, and they suddenly snap back to today's "reasonable" position.

    I don't think they have a real belief in any of this stuff; just trying to stay in the money and not alienate their members too badly. Very hypocritical and venal. I pretty much ignore their "editorial" opinions, because I know it just today's BS.

    Leave a comment:


  • Makwa
    started a topic ADK Takes Stance on High Peaks Use Recommendations

    ADK Takes Stance on High Peaks Use Recommendations

    I think this aligns pretty closely with the opinions of most folks here on the forum (at least the vocal ones)...

    https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2...endations.html
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