Summit Steward Program

[1ADAM12]

Here is an interesting video I found on you tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiEjCXKf4c0

[Neil]

My comment posted and awaiting approval:

Guys, your vid is basically a POS. Showing a 3 foot wide 6” deep trail and suggest that hikers are damaging the environment is a complete joke. To use a brand new summit steward (first day on the job, no less!) who obviously knew squat, as an interviewee strips your pamphlet of any possible shred of credibility.

Then, you show what, a 3 foot wide, 6” deep trail representing just what percentage of the entire Mt. Marcy massif? Hmmm, maybe .0000000000001%. Oh, dear!! Call 911, quick!

You guys are nothing more than a pathetic joke.

I have hiked and bushwhacked hundreds of times throughout the High Peaks Region over the years and can tell you that hiker "damage" is so infinitesimal as to defy measurement.

Then to compare self-propelled recreation with motorized recreation as regards environmental damage in the Adirondacks is nothing more than a cheap lie.

[ElectricMan]

Well, on the positive side, it wasn’t filmed on the Santanoni Range.
Some people just don’t have anything better to do….

[TFR]

I have hiked and bushwhacked hundreds of times throughout the High Peaks Region over the years and can tell you that hiker "damage" is so infinitesimal as to defy measurement.

Neil, while the percentage of the HPR that is damaged by hikers is in fact barely measurable in percentages, there *IS* hiker damage, and unfortunately, it is concentrated at the highest summits of the ADKs, because the ecosystem is so fragile.

Since the Summit Steward program started, the Alpine meadows have been increasing in size. It's simple, just stay on the trail!

Yeah, there are some badly eroded trails, so let's fix them!

[1ADAM12]

I guess this is part one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU2XlOyKmTc

[bignslow]

My comment posted and awaiting approval:

One thing I wanted to point out to the video maker on youtube was that fact that all the erosion from the hikers is still narrower than the wheelbase of any ATV but I decided not to bother since his mind is obviously already made up.

When dealing with people like this I always prefer to keep this quote in the back of my mind:

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

[pete_hickey]

So, I finally got to see that video. I heard about it some time ago. The same people doing are very much against the ADK and the DEC. They were trying to find all kinds of things to 'get' them.... Hours worked, poor working conditions, etc. Whatever they can do to make hikers and the ADK look bad. Financed by an ATV group. Money was spend to make that. The Utube distribution was an afterthought, I suspect.

[hockey2]

Let's not forget about the arguement of fuel. Have you ever seen puddles where ATV's and other motorized vehicles ride. There's always a film of petroleum on the top. It's inevitable, if you have a gas powered vehicle, you will always have fuel spillage.
Say goodbye to the pristine streams.

I think you need to take the video for what it's worth. It's obvious he took advantage of the stewards inexperience (probably planned). I didn't give it much merit at all.

[Pig Pen]

This wasn't a very compelling presentation, the filmers didn't really cover the time span of the hiker damage as compared to how long it would take atv's to do the same damage. And the Summit Steward was not on top of the facts.

However, we should be careful about banning people other than ourselves from wilderness areas. If the goal is zero impact, then hiking shouldn't be allowed either. The filmers make this point and it is not completely invalid.

[pete_hickey]

The video was made almost 3 years ago. It was well planned out, to take advantage of unknowing workers. BTW, Mike (the interviewer) is probably more familiar with the Marcy Dam area /Van Ho trail, than anyone on this forum. He knows his rare plants, and hiker patterns. There is a tremendous amount of irony in him doing that video.

[pete_hickey]

Interesting.... On the Utube discussion, he seems to think that Neil is Neil Woodsworth, of the ADK. He thinks his video will draw the higher-ups of the ADK into debate with him.

[Neil]

I tried setting that record (that I am not Woodsworth) straight but somehow only about half of my posts get posted.

He (Jason cum PBauer) and I have been dialoguing via PM. If he thinks I'm Woodsworth then I understand why he is so insistant that we go hiking together with his vid cam.

I mentioned that I bushwhack a fair bit and he dosn't believe that it is possible to do so on account of how thick the forest is!!

[1ADAM12]

I mentioned that I bushwhack a fair bit and he dosn't believe that it is possible to do so on account of how thick the forest is!!

Thats funny right there! A true environmentalist

[Mavs00]

The guy totally disqualified himself from any legitimate debate on this (or any similar topic) with this comment from the youtube link

Nothing puts a smile on my face more than an angry fascist.
pbauer666

Anytime that you refer to hikers, hiking groups, current State or federal agencies (or officials) or most other current real world legitimate western organizations as FASCIST, you immediately label yourselves as far-left loon with NO GRASP of reality.

These were/are examples of fascists (WARNING: graphic linked material).

HERE, HERE and HERE

Disagree, work towards change, even protest if you like...... But keep your eye on the ball and one foot in the REAL world too. If you are part of the DEC/ADK/APA = Fascist crowd (and actually beleive it), you are insane, clear and simple.

[tgoodwin]

I haven't watched the video because with a glacially slow dial-up connection I didn't think I needed to spend the time to download it - especially since the comments made it pretty clear what it was about. A few years ago I met an individual who was closely associated with "equestrian interests" who told me about a recent visit to the High Peaks and the two hikes done there. Turns out this individual had hiked in from the Coreys Road trailhead just far enough to reach the first little steep pitch and then turned around. Then went to ADK Loj and hiked toward Algonquin - again just to the steep pitch just before the junction with the Whales Tail. The apparent purpose was to "prove" that hikers do just as much damage to trails as horses. Sound familiar? I refused to take the "bait" as I agree that arguing with idiots quickly brings you down to their level. I don't have any answers to how we can defuse debates of this kind except to agree that some damage may have been done in the past but also point out just how much work has been done (by hikers or by trail crews financed primarily by hiker contributions) in the past 25 years to mitigate this damage.