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Descriptions to include in a slide book/catalogue.

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  • Descriptions to include in a slide book/catalogue.

    Here's what I came up with in a one-man 15 minute brain storming session. What would you add or subtract?

    Name of slide, if any
    Name of mountain and what side.
    Year of formation, if known
    Map info (USGS quad)
    Length
    Height gain
    Ave. pitch in percent & deg.
    Steepest section(s)
    Rock quality, grip
    Clean/overgrown/slimey?
    Width
    Views
    Time required (very wide widow)
    Special points of interest, re: flora, human history, folklore

    Parking (2 cars?)
    Route /bushwack to slide base
    UTM co-ords at base, mid-slide, top of slide.
    Tracklog to slide base (?)
    Route from slide top to summit or trail.

    Photos of and from slide, satellite imagery

    Degree of difficulty: easy, moderate, difficult.

    Intro: safety warnings, navigation issues, bushwhacking, weather, ecological concerns.

  • #2
    Looks like you have it covered. Perhaps a "comments" section with quotes from others who have done the slide? Probably could be under one or more of your existing categories.

    Dick
    "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you and the storms their energy, while care will drop off like autumn leaves." John Muir

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    • #3
      You're missing somthing. The rating. Steepest section doesn't really do it. There can be very short extremely difficult sections. Swing a bit too far left on the Eagle, and you'll see what I mean. This is why they have ratings for climbs and slides. It has the rating of the most difficult section.

      For example, I think Melnor has a something about the Whiteface slide, where he says there are class 3(4?) sections, but they can be avoided. If a slide has section that is class n, and it cannot be avoided, that it VERY important information, even if the rest of it is relativvely easy.
      Guinness: Goes in brown, comes out yellow.

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      • #4
        I was hoping to avoid rating an entire slide as Calss x. Maybe what I would do is say something like, "overall this is a moderate slide, however at such and such a spot there is a class x pitch that you can avoid by going right".

        Or,"unavoidable class 4 pitch at the split, otherwise the rest of the route is easy."



        I have little to no experience with the rating system. Dominic assures me he understands it. He also says you don't need ropes untill 5.4 which is different from what little I do know. I subjectively rate difficulty in terms of exposure: ie. enough to get badly hurt but not a "death fall"

        If a slide is real easy except for a real tough section then I would make that very clear. The important thing is whether you can get around the tough section or not.

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        • #5
          really any class 5 should need ropes as they are vertical or near vertical.
          Avitar: Софиский Собор, Новгород

          "My circus train pulls through the night
          Full of lions and trapeze artists
          I'm done with elephants and clowns
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          • #6
            Originally posted by neil
            Dominic assures me he understands it. He also says you don't need ropes untill 5.4 which is different from what little I do know.
            You don't need ropes if you're not going to fall.

            5.4 and below are rather easy. Ropes are just there in case you fall.
            Guinness: Goes in brown, comes out yellow.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pete_hickey
              Originally posted by neil
              Dominic assures me he understands it. He also says you don't need ropes untill 5.4 which is different from what little I do know.
              You don't need ropes if you're not going to fall.

              5.4 and below are rather easy. Ropes are just there in case you fall.

              true but i'm more of a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy, as a climber who is afraid of heights (irony huh) i just like the rope for that "safe" feeling on anything approaching vertical and more than 7 feet up even when i know i can handle it. my best fall was 20 feet headfirst on a 30 foot cliff - stopped about 6 feet from hitting bottom. this was one that shouldn't have happened but did - you never know when your going to slip up.
              Avitar: Софиский Собор, Новгород

              "My circus train pulls through the night
              Full of lions and trapeze artists
              I'm done with elephants and clowns
              I want to
              Run away and join the office"

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              • #8
                This effort, if it ever gets off the ground (ha, ha) will be aimed at the hiking public. Unless a chart was included detailing the class system no one would understand it anyway. Most of the dozen or so slides I've done thus far have been friction climbs with hands being helpful often and essential occasionally.

                Allthough I never felt like I was in any danger (and I'm a really lousey rock climber) my friends were quite uncomfortable on the upper reaches of the 1990 Colden slide. At one point on a particularly steep part this girl began to slip. (After that she stuck to the very edge of the slide for the rest of the trip and had to take a big crap once we got off the slide.)

                I doubt we were on a class 5 but conveying a certain degrees of steepness to a lay audience will be important.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by neil
                  I was hoping to avoid rating an entire slide as Calss x.

                  I subjectively rate difficulty in terms of exposure: ie. enough to get badly hurt but not a "death fall"
                  That isn't really what exposure is. Exposure is the perception. A wide open slide is much more scarey than a very narrow one. It's mental. One can get killed easily in places with little exposure.

                  Some people are bothered by exposure, others are not.
                  Guinness: Goes in brown, comes out yellow.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by neil
                    This effort, if it ever gets off the ground (ha, ha) will be aimed at the hiking public. Unless a chart was included detailing the class system no one would understand it anyway. Most of the dozen or so slides I've done thus far have been friction climbs with hands being helpful often and essential occasionally.
                    The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) is the standard for North America and is used frequently in guidebooks (i.e. Beckey's) to describe scrambling on slides, above treeline routes, etc. It is described in "Freedom of the Hills" thusly:

                    "Class 1: Hiking.
                    Class 2: Simple scrambling, with possible occasional use of the hands.
                    Class 3: Scrambling, a rope can be carried but is usually not required.
                    Class 4: Simple climbing, with exposure. A rope is often used. Natural protection can be easily found. Falls may well be fatal.
                    Class 5: Technical free climbing. Climbing involves rope, belaying, and other protection hardware for safety."

                    If you were to do a slide guidebook, I would strongly encourage using the system, because it is universally understood in North America. Simply include the above description in the beginning of the book. It is relatively simple and easy until you get into Class 5 ratings, but that wouldn't be a problem in this project.

                    The Adirondack Climbing book rates the Eagle Slide and Trap Dike with the YDS, if I recall correctly. Most slides in the Adirondacks will either be Class 2 or 3.

                    P.s. I'm a hiker not a climber, but I have a good buddy who climbs and I have climbed with him a couple times.

                    Edit to add: P.p.s I am one of those who is bothered by exposure, but I try to face it head on as much as possible, with varying degrees of success.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TEO

                      The Adirondack Climbing book rates the Eagle Slide and Trap Dike with the YDS, if I recall correctly. Most slides in the Adirondacks will either be Class 2 or 3.
                      I was going to say this but don't have and 1st hand exp. climbing slides yet so I wasn't 100% sure :lol:
                      Avitar: Софиский Собор, Новгород

                      "My circus train pulls through the night
                      Full of lions and trapeze artists
                      I'm done with elephants and clowns
                      I want to
                      Run away and join the office"

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                      • #12
                        Here's a site that explains the ratings well

                        http://www.climber.org/Resource/decimal.html

                        It includes this basic way of thinking of them

                        Class 1: you fall, you're stupid.
                        Class 2: you fall, you break your arm.
                        Class 3: you fall, you break your leg.
                        Class 4: you fall, you are almost dead (i.e., you can't breath and move your arms, legs, and head).
                        Class 5: you fall, you are dead.
                        Qam1

                        http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/qam1 - Anything & Everything on the Adirondacks

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by qam1
                          Class 1: you fall, you're stupid.
                          Oh oh. This is bad news for me.

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                          • #14
                            good definition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_Decimal_System

                            They way I learned it and how it is defined in most climbing resources:

                            Class 1 - Walking and hiking, generally, hands are not needed.

                            Class 2 - Hiking, mostly on established trails involving some scrambling with occasional use of hands.

                            Class 3 - Climbing or scrambling with moderate exposure. Angle steep enough that hands are needed for balance.

                            Class 4 - Intermediate climbing with exposure extreme enough that most mountaineers will want a belay. A fall could be serious or fatal. Intermediate climbing requires the use of your hands and arms for pulling yourself up.

                            Class 5 - Technical rock climbing is encompassed in Class 5 climbing. A rope, specialized equipment and training are used by the leader to protect against a fall.

                            5.0-5.4: A person of reasonable fitness can climb at this level with little or no rock climbing skills.

                            5.4-5.7: Requires rock climbing skills or strength.

                            5.7-5.9: Good rock climbing skills and strength are generally needed to climb at this level.

                            5.10-5.14: Excellent rock climbing skills are required to climb at this level.

                            Class 6 - Rock so shear and smooth that it is unclimbable, without the use of aid.
                            Avitar: Софиский Собор, Новгород

                            "My circus train pulls through the night
                            Full of lions and trapeze artists
                            I'm done with elephants and clowns
                            I want to
                            Run away and join the office"

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                            • #15
                              I would say use the system as a guide and try to be descriptive about the route and let people deceide for themselves.
                              Avitar: Софиский Собор, Новгород

                              "My circus train pulls through the night
                              Full of lions and trapeze artists
                              I'm done with elephants and clowns
                              I want to
                              Run away and join the office"

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