Catskill legends

[funkyfreddy]

Anyone have any? I'll tell one just to get us started........

Many, many, moons ago legendary gangster Dutch Shultz used to hang out at the Phoenicia Hotel right in the heart of the Catskills....... that much is a fact. The story goes is that he and one of his henchman hid many millions made during prohibition in a pine grove along the Esopus River near Rt. 28 just before he was killed by other gangsters in 1923. This is the short version of the story...... by the way, have any of you ever considered hiking with a metal detector?

I would love to hear about other legends, ghosts, buried treasures, mountain lions, alien abductions, kills in the kills, whatever............

[mudhook]

The loot is along the rail bed between Phonecia and Hunter. Heard it from a guy who knew a guy, who.....

[Jay H]

I have it... Fred, I forgot to tell you the other day, I have this little sack downstairs with the initials D.S. written on it...



Has anybody read these books:

Amazon link

I've flipped through a couple books on catskills legends at the small general store in Phoenicia before...

Jay

[MattC]

I haven't read any of the books at the Amazon link, but I imagine the VanValkenburg is worth a look. He -co-authored "Inside the Blue Line" w/ Chris Olney, and he's also written several other books, including murder-mysteries set in the Catskills and Gunks.

As for legends, there's Rip Van Winkle of course. He probably slept in about 40 different places, depending on who you asked. There is a chapter in the Alf Evers book called "Legend Pirates" about how a sort of "legend-manufacturing industry" came about during the 19th century in order to promote towns, mountain houses, resorts, etc. For instance, the Legend of Utsayantha was used to help promote Stamford as a resort town. Utsayantha was an Indian princess who fell in love w/ a white man and bore his child. Her enraged father slew the infant by drowning, then the Princess threw herself in the lake and was drowned as well. There is a grave marker for her by the woods road leading to the summit which now bears her name-which is coincidentally one of the Catskill Hundred Highest.

Another legend mentioned by Alf in the same chapter deals w/ the origin of a man w/ gun and dog which is painted on a cliff high above Roxbury. I presume this is the "White Man" of White Man Mountain. The story goes that a farmer planted his potato crop high on the slope below the cliff to get above potato bug range. His son painted the picture while he worked. A different account had another Indian Princess "Devasego" painting the portrait in tribute to, and w/ the blood of her lover, who was murdered by white men. BTW, White Man Mt. is also one of the Catskill Hundred Highest...
:roll:

Matt

[Peakbagr]

Bill Leavitt is one in my books. He and about 20 of my friends snuck up the back of Windham and waited on the summit in the cold in '82 and surprised me when I finished the 3500W. Great surprise party. I hiked much of the TCT end to ender with him one day and heard lots of stories.
When I get some time, I've a project in mind to petition the club to consider renaming of one of the Catskill 35ers for him. He'd deserve it even if not for all he and Elinor did by founding the 3500 Club.

[Mark Schaefer]

I agree Peakbagr that Bill and Elinore Leavitt were legends, and very hospitable ones.


Ed Grant West (1901-1988), "Mr. Catskills"
He was given this unofficial title at a celebration of NYS forest preserve in 1985 by Governor Mario Cuomo. Ed West was employed by the DEC for 48 years. In his early DEC years he planted trees in many of the Catskill reforestation areas. He later served as a ranger and surveyor. Widely recognized as the expert in Catskill surveying, he was frequently called upon to settle land disputes. In 1960 he became Chief of the Bureau of Land Acquisition for both the Catskills and Adirondacks Parks. Thousands of acres were added to both parks during his time as Chief. He was the presiding DEC official at the burning of the historic Catskill Mountain House ruins in 1963, which some might argue was the only blot on his career. After his DEC retirement in 1967 he continued to head a surveying firm, and was on the job the day he died at age 88. (summarized from Old Stone Walls, Catskill Land and Lore by Norman J. Van Valkenburgh and other sources).

Ed was also an early member of the Catskill 3500 Club. Ed led several 3500 Club hikes including one to Kaaterskill High Peak and the "Tory Fort" in 1975 which I had the good fortune to attend. Fortunately for us much of Ed West's vast wealth of knowledge of the Catskills is preserved in Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest, A History. The book is dedicated to Ed and his wife Ruth Riseley West.


Winnisook, the "Big Indian"
There are many versions of the legend. According to Wallace Bruce (late 19th, early 20th century historian) Winnisook was 7' tall. In the most positive versions he was a bit of a renegade but became a reformed and respected farmer who lived near Allaben. About 1800 he was overpowered and killed by wolves. In other versions of the legend he was a settlement raider, or an abductor of a another man's wife. In some of those versions he was killed by settlers and in other variations he was able to reconcile with the settlers. Today "Big Indian" is the name of a hamlet, valley/hollow, and 3700' mountain. Winnisook Lake is the headwaters of the Esopus Creek at the head of the Big Indian Hollow, and there is the private Winnisook Lake Club.

[ProbKid]

Open your NYS Gazeteers to page 52, section 1C, just east of High Peak. WHAT is that little thing????

I own gazeteers for ten states, and have never ever seen one of those. I can't figure out what it is, but it makes be giggle a little everytime I see it.

[Mark Schaefer]

Originally Posted by ProbKid

Open your NYS Gazeteers to page 52, section 1C, just east of High Peak. WHAT is that little thing????

I own gazeteers for ten states, and have never ever seen one of those. I can't figure out what it is, but it makes be giggle a little everytime I see it.

That little blob stumped be for many a year. At first I thought it was a typo, but it was repeated on every edition of the DeLorme atlas that I purchased. It wasn't until I read about these little DeLorme "Where's Waldo" icons on VFTT that I figured it out with the help of a magnifying glass. It is none other than old bearded Rip Van Winkle resting on his musket, with zzz over his head. It is in an appropriate spot as Palenville claims to be Rip's hometown.

The Massachusetts atlas has an individual from a persecuted group located not far outside of Boston. And in the Pennsylvania atlas there is renowned rodent. Each DeLorme state atlas supposedly has an icon of something related to the state, and probably in an appropriate location. The VFTT thread mentioned a station wagon icon in Michigan, but I could not locate it (at least not yet). Another post in that thread (must have been deleted) mentioned that New Hampshire has a hamster -- haven't located that either.

[mudhook]

White Man is still painted every few years, I can see it from my house. No one really knows how it got started. Another legend about the the grief stricken Big Indian is that he committed suicide by jumping off a ledge on Slide into Winisook Lake. Quite a jumper. Another Indian Princess jumped off Dancing Rock into the Ashokan Res. Of course the res. had not even been built then.

[masshysteria]

Fred, YOU'RE the biggest legend in the Catskills!

How about the story behind the classic childrens book, "My Side of the Mountain". I was told that it was based on the true story of a young boy who fended for himself in the Cats. Any truth to that?

[masshysteria]

Originally Posted by funkyfreddy

I would love to hear about other legends, ghosts, buried treasures, mountain lions, alien abductions, kills in the kills, whatever............

Although this legend isn't in the Catskills, it does occur in the Saratoga/Albany/West. Mass area. After the defeat of the British at Saratoga, many captured British and Hessian soldiers were marched back to Boston as POWs. The rules of war at the time allowed prisoners to carry with them whatever possesions they wanted, as long as they carried them on their person. Many of the Germen mercenaries carried gold and silver that they had looted from houses in the Saratoga area, before their defeat. Now this gold and silver wasn't too much of a burden, until they reached the mountains of Western Mass.. The legend is that these Germans got tired of dragging their gold over Day Mountain in Dalton. So they buried it with the intention of returning with the victorious British army to claim their treasure. Things didn't quite pan out the way they had hoped.
To this day, people scour Day Mnt. with metal detectors looking for the Hessian Gold. As far as I know, there's been no success. BTW, the AT goes over the top of Day Mnt..

[Mark Schaefer]

Originally Posted by masshysteria

How about the story behind the classic childrens book, "My Side of the Mountain". I was told that it was based on the true story of a young boy who fended for himself in the Cats. Any truth to that?

I double checked the Author's Preface to the book (in the recent reprint of the My Side of the Mountain Trilogy, by Jean Craighead George). In response to children's questions she writes

Most want to know if he (Sam) is a real person. Some convinced that he is, have biked to Delhi, New York, from as far away as Long Island, New York, to find his tree, falcon, weasel, and racoon. To these and all others who ask, I say, "There is no real Sam, except inside my head."

She does acknowledge that Sam fulfilled some of her own childhood dreams growing up on the Potomac; to run way from home and go to the wilderness. Also her brothers taught her falconry when she was thirteen. Some of which can be read at her website.

[masshysteria]

I was hoping it was based on a real life story, oh well. It is very well written. Curious though that she would choose the Catskills for her setting. Thank you Mark for the information!

[Jay H]

While not the subject of the Catskills, Claudius Smith was supposedly a famous outlaw who set up camp in Harriman SP, near or at the point that is marked Claudius Smith's Den near the souther Harriman map (of the NYNJTC maps).

If that is true, then he had an awesome campsite, as that spot has some fantastic views of Sterling Forest, Arden House, etc..

jay

[Boreal Chickadee]

Hey , I remember Claudius Smith...he was the name of a pet rabbit we had years ago!! No, seriously, it's all connected. We had moved to north Jersey for two years and my kids pediatrician, Dr Albert P Rosen, was the president or something of the NYNJ Trail conference . He had rabbits that had free run of his offices. Well, of course, when rabbits do what rabbits do best, there are little rabbits that need homes. And who else to pawn little rabbits off on then unsuspecting Moms and Dads who bring their sick children in and leave with a bunny and a bill. After hearing the story of the colorful Mr Smith, we of course hiked to his cave and my son promptly named his pet lagamorph after a horse thief!

Oh yeah, the doc was one damn good pediatrician!

Claudius Smith's dens 'two overhanging caves aboaut 9x30x8 This was the horse stable in Revolutionary days. Smith and his gang of horse thieves made this their lair, until caught and hung at Goshen, Jan 22, 1779

[Boreal Chickadee]

I also have the book "Legends of the Shawangunk (Shon-gum) and its Environs" by Philp H Smith published by Syracuse University 'Press

[catskill_leanto]

Legend 1 -- Many moons ago, when I lived in West Saugerties, there were tales about ghosts sited in Palenville. I had a few friends, at that time, who would periodically tell of people dressed in 19th century garb, sitting by or in the stream. I always had a creepy feeling whenever I went to P'ville, whether to shop for groceries or to take catch the

Legend 2 -- Members of the Catskill 3500 Club hiked naked to the summit I have heard substantiated rumors that an era of younger hikers in the '70's, removed their clothing and hiked to the trailless peaks with just their packs and boots. There were a few of them, say eight or so, who did it over a summer or two.

Legent 3 -- Barefoot Phil....