Warner Creek Trail Work - June 7/8

[Snickers]

I will be leading a trail care weekend on the Warner Creek Trail June 7/8. I can use help and would love to enjoy the weekend with some of you. If you are interested in helping for a day or the weekend please pm me for details.

BTW, I need to ask more questions when signing up for something. I thought I was going to be part of a group doing the trail care, not the one leading it. Imagine my surprise at the dinner when I found out I was the one leading it...hee....hee...hee. So, with that said, "FRIENDS" come help me.

You will need to supply your own tools, gloves, garbage bags. We will be camping some place in the area. (Most likely Woodland Valley)

Happy Trails - Cindy

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by Snickers

I will be leading a trail care weekend on the Warner Creek Trail June 7/8. I can use help and would love to enjoy the weekend with some of you. If you are interested in helping for a day or the weekend please pm me for details.

BTW, I need to ask more questions when signing up for something. I thought I was going to be part of a group doing the trail care, not the one leading it. Imagine my surprise at the dinner when I found out I was the one leading it...hee....hee...hee. So, with that said, "FRIENDS" come help me.

You will need to supply your own tools, gloves, garbage bags. We will be camping some place in the area. (Most likely Woodland Valley)

Happy Trails - Cindy

I will help you...

As far as camping, why can't we stay at the leanto near the firetower on Mt Tremper, or we could just backcountry camp...

Actually, right by Warner creek is a good place to camp, there is a flat spot where the remnents of an old homestead or something (mark will chirp in now ) where it would be nice to camp in. (assuming we can find it on the trail). Everytime I've been on that trail (twice) i've lost the blazes completely and wound up bushwacking down to the creek and across to find the woods road and before you start heading up to Edgewood Mtn. If we can stay on the trail, as the trail goes down towards Warner creek itself to cross it, just before you cross is a wide open grassy plain with an old foundation I think and some tailings of years ago.

Jay

[MattC]

I'm in, at least for one day in some capacity. I'll be more specific when we get there.

Good on you taking up this responsibility Cindy. Pete has really had a hard time keeping that trail in good shape, mostly due to underuse. Hopefully the nice new section going up to Plateau will draw attention to the rest of that trail.

Matt

[Snickers]

will help you...

As far as camping, why can't we stay at the leanto near the firetower on Mt Tremper, or we could just backcountry camp...

Thank you "friend".

Actually, backcountry camping maybe the choice for us going in for two days and down by the creek would be an excellent place.

Good on you taking up this responsibility Cindy. Pete has really had a hard time keeping that trail in good shape, mostly due to underuse.

Thanks Matt. We backpacked this trail a few summers ago and I swore I would never hike that trail again. It was on my "do not return list", so much for that. Thanks Matt for helping out.

Cindy

[mountainmeijin]

I might be heading up the the 'daks that week, but if not, I'll be sure to lend a hand in trimming the trail.

[MattC]

Some thoughts.

-First, thanks to Cindy,Tim, Neil or whoever asked for and made this post a sticky. Definitely worthy of stickyhood.

-Secondly, just looked at my map-the WC trail is 7.55 miles from Tremper's summit to Silver Hollow, plus the newer section up Plateau. That's a good stretch of trail. Cindy, any ideas about strategy? Did Pete ask you to prioritize any particular section? I've only once hiked the section between Tremper and Carl, and that was almost 4 years ago. The Plateau section I just did a couple months ago. The rest I've never set foot upon, but I've heard about it, and it doesn't sound pretty.

-Should the priority be to get the outer, more used sections shipshape? Or should the focus first be on getting the more neglected middle parts up to speed, in hopes of promoting use? Should there be one compete walk-through of the whole thing before coming up with a plan of attack?

-Lastly, that last time I climbed Plateau, I spoke with the ranger at Notch Lake while gearing up-he mentioned the Warner Creek crossing being kind of dicey, but that Region 3 doesn't want to build a bridge there. Not sure what Pete's opinion is on this. And of course I've never seen that crossing myself, so I have no opinion at this point, just mentioning it as another potential trail issue.

Matt

[Snickers]

Matt, I am not sure I will have the time to do a walk through. I did get some pm's on the trail condition and I did hike it from Tremper to 214 summer before last.

First I am not concerned about the new section. We just hiked it a during the winter and it was in good shape, no blow down.

I am concerned with the section from Tremper to Notch Inn Road. This section is very negelected. My hope is to be able to get enough people to come at it from both sides. Get one crew to start at Tremper and the other at Notch Inn Road and work towards each other. The middle section is like a bushwhack and I am afraid that our one weekend will not be enough, maybe we can get a weekend in July and August as well. If we could work on getting the trail opened up and then get a few folks to maintain it that would be great. Also, it would be great if we had access to some heavy duty brush cutters and if we could get a chain saw guy or two in with us. I will speak to Peter about this and find out who I need to contact for the heavy duty support. When we hiked this trail it was like a bushwhack with trail markers. We hiked it in August and the stream crossing was not an issue, you cross the stream up high on the side of a hill, it was hard to follow the trail in that section as I recall. There was also a section that was heavy with blow down, heavy brush, pickers, nettles and a lot of side hill.

If someone has the time and would like to scout it that would be great. The only weekend I can think of that I would have time would be Mother's Day weekend, May 10/11. I am planning on being up that weekend to take care of my sections of trail on the Devil's Path. I think I can get both of my sections done in one day if I start really early. I have a section by Indian Head and usually hike a loop there with the Jimmy Dolan and I have another section at the other end, St Anne's Peak to Mink Hollow. If someone wants to scout the Warner Creek Trail with me over that weekend let me know and I will plan my trail work around your availability.

We have about 6/7 volunteers already, great job gang, you impress me.

A big "THANK YOU" to Mavs and Neil. I asked them to make this a sticky and their response was immediate.

All help, ideas, and suggestions are appreciated, please keep them coming. If you have contact names and phones number please pass them on as well and I will get about making the necessary calls.

Cindy

[catdacker]

Hi Cindy, I also talked with Pete at the dinner on Saturday about this trail. I have never been on it but we hiked Silver Hollow Mt in December and were impressed with the winter view. We were planning to do a through hike in early May to check out the Warner Creek part of it. We tried to hike from the Willow Post Office but were unsure of where the trail started. We live in a house with a view of Mt Tremper and Mt Carl from our porch, but the leaves are closing it in as we speak. We have only hiked Tremper once. We are up in the Catskills to hike just about every weekend so maybe we can plan something. Mike & El

[ajtiv]

Cindy I am in and will help both days
I prefer backpacking into the area rather than driving over we can always drive to Woodland Valley or NS lake for showers if wanted.
I just bought Carhartt work gloves just for this occasion
Al

[Jay H]

OK, the warner creek itself is typically not hard to cross, my first time, I crossed on a huge log just upstream from the trail crossing. The second time, we lost the trail and just whacked across the stream without a problem by rock hopping.

The trail from Tremper to the Jessup trail is not too bad, a little overgrown but nothing a few loppers or pruners can't handle, right Cyndi Lopper? The section above the stream crossing is hairy and it's quite easy to get lost.

I don't even recall the section after Warner's Creek up Edgewood to be too bad... The worst section though, IMO, seems to be between the Jessup trail and Warner Creek. I'm sure the rest need some work but I think at least people do go up Edgewood (hunters and CAT100 and LP folks)

Jay

[Snickers]

Great Al, I have added you to the list.

Peter I have you down as a tentative.

Mike and El if you want to scout it with me on May 10 or 11 let me know.

My plan is to backpack in as I think the majority of the thick brush is in the middle, this will save time hiking in on Sunday and give us more time for clearing the trail. Looks like there will be a good mix of folks, some coming for the weekend other for the day. So far all coming for the weekend have expressed a desire to backpack and stay in Saturday night.

Note to all, bring long pants as there are a lot of nettles on this trail.

Cindy

[ferrisjrf]

Originally Posted by Snickers

...The middle section is like a bushwhack and I am afraid that our one weekend will not be enough, maybe we can get a weekend in July and August as well. If we could work on getting the trail opened up and then get a few folks to maintain it that would be great. Also, it would be great if we had access to some heavy duty brush cutters and if we could get a chain saw guy or two in with us. I will speak to Peter about this and find out who I need to contact for the heavy duty support...

As we discussed, I'd be happy to join in on this weekend. I'm not well acquainted (it sounds like there's not many that are) with the section of trail mentioned above, and I have no idea if us "amateurs" are even authorized to do this kind of work, but I do have a chainsaw that I could wield if necessary. I'm not all that excited about the prospect of hauling a 15lb saw (it's not a little guy), fuel, and bar oil through the woods (especially if it's not truly necessary), but I'd be willing to do so...for the right amount of post-work beer .

Jason

[ajtiv]

Nettles?
OOPS I think I might be busy that weekend
Let me double check

Jason no power tools allowed by the DEC.
Hand saws, axes, pruners, etc. only
The 15lb case of beer is all yours.
The good news is it will be lighter carrying out
Al

[Snickers]

Thanks Jason, I have added you to the list, instead of the chainsaw you can carry the beer in, but you need to get a wheat beer for me. We are not allowed to use chainsaws,. You report the blow downs to the ranger for your area and they send in a chainsaw crew to cut.

Cindy

[ferrisjrf]

Originally Posted by Snickers

...instead of the chainsaw you can carry the beer in, but you need to get a wheat beer for me. We are not allowed to use chainsaws

Kinda figured. And here I am vacuuming up metal shavings after sharpening my chain in my living room . Well, I'm sure I can find something to weigh down my pack .

Jason

[Jay H]

So, we have a lot of time to plan, but we all don't need to bring the same stuff, at least it kind of worked out well when AndrewS and a small herd cleared part of the herdpath, It seemed to work best when there were the biggest amt of Bow Saw/axe people and then a small group of Loppers to get the quick stuff and then switching off everynow and then. I.e. it seemed the most efficient than for one person to clear everything which would mean switching from a bow saw to pruners and back which is slow. Instead have a bunch just clearing the big stuff and a bunch clearing the little stuff and rotate but remain flexible. I don't think the Warner creek section is as bad with the tax day ice storm as the LP north of Windham so it might be ALOT of brush/lopper/pruner work and some bowsaw/axe work. Who knows, but the scouters should be able to fill us in on what is good.

As far as provided, Jason, yeah, not allowed to use a chainsaw and I have no intention of bringing my Husky which weighs about 14lbs dry. Does have a 20" bar though and 59cc of tree cutting ooomph...

I will have a 24" fiskars axe, a 20" bow saw, my loppers, and gloves. I can bring some hand pruners too but I find the loppers quicker. And for the most part, bow saws are generally more useful, at least IME.

Jay

[Snickers]

Saturday June 7th we will meet at Notch Lake PA at 8:00AM, we will then carpool to the trailhead. The PA is on 214, just past the Devil's Tombstone campground. Peter spoke to the land owner and he gave us permission for access through his property. Peter will meet us Saturday morning as well and take us in. If joining us on "Sunday only" pm me and I will send you information on meeting place and time.

Peter's son walked the trail this weekend and as I had anticipated the trail from Warner Creek over Carl Mt. is pretty much a bushwhack. Just like I remembered it from when we backpacked it two summers ago. If anyone has a sickle please bring it, as well as hand/bow saws and clippers.

Thanks so much for the generosity of your time and hard work.

Cindy

[beav700]

Yesterday I finally did the Warner Creek Trails from Mt Tremper to Notch Inn Road to map it out for the new map. I dropped of the car at the notch and rode my bike down to Phoenicia Trail head. There were some people going up the trail which I passed and never saw again. After the tower the trail to the Willow Trail intersection was in great shape with no blowdowns, well blazed and easy to fallow. I hiked down to the road on the Willow Trails and then back up to the Warner trail. Willow trail was also in great shape. The first ¼ mile of Warner trail from the Willow trail was in OK shape with few small fallen trees on the trail (nothing bigger than 6-8” in diameter) . The fun begins when you start to drop in elevation to go around the Carl Mtn. The trails is so overgrown that you are basically bushwhacking. If I didn't have to map out the trail I would just take a bearing and go down to the creek which I think most people do. This is why the trail is so hard to fallow because everyone is taking different route. The trail is heavily blazed with new large TRAIL markers going down with very few old smaller markers coming up from the Warner Creek. The section around the Carl Mtn is the only section of the entire trail with this kind of blazing inconsistency. I was glad that I started at the Phoenicia since 80% of markers were facing me going down. Even with the new large markers high on the trees and spaced 20' apart, the trail is still PITA to fallow since the vegetation covers most of the blazes. There are also some small switchbacks that are easy to bypass and it took some wondering around the woods to realize that there were switchbacks. I took over an hour going up and down to make sure I had the trail mapped correctly using three separate GPS units. Once I got down to a nice flowing brook, the trail got easier to fallow. The Warner Creek was flowing nicely which made the dry crossing too risky. I took my shoes off and crossed the stream. After couple minutes I got to the dirt road that connects both Silver Hollow Roads. There is another small brook that floods the road for little bit which is another good source of clean water. Make sure to collect water here or the brook on the other side of Warner Creek. Warner Creek it's self flows through some residential property upstream where the water could be contaminated. The trail leaves the road and heads north. This is where the overgrowth kicks in again for the next ½ mile. There is one huge tree ( 18” diameter) right on the trail but the broken end of it is just five feet of the trail where a path developed. There was a small stuff bag hanging on the stump with something inside. Once I reached about 2000' feet the trail was again in great shape with well defined path and blazed on both sides of the trees. Coming down to the notch the trail gets even nicer. Remember that this entire trails is heard path type of trail that some might think it's overgrown everywhere. Most of the trails in the Western Catskills are much more overgrown and they always have been that way. I made little map showing the really overgrown sections in red circles and two good water sources I mentioned above. There are only two trees that would need to be cut with a saw and rest can be dragged off. What is needed the most are clippers to clip all the small bushes and trees. Also blue trail markers would be nice to blazed the section going up around the Carl Mtn. Here is a map.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/beav700/WARNER.jpg

[MattC]

Myself and my friend Ted also hiked the length of the trail as part of a backpack over the weekend-see my trip report for details. I've been running around since getting back yesterday and still don't have time to write a lot on this thread, but Beav pretty well sums it up. Other than the one large tree, which is a little north of Warner Creek, blowdown is not a big issue. Mostly it consists of small stuff that could be easily removed by one or two people. I don't more than one or two saws are needed for the entire crew.

The issue is the lack of footbed in many places and the fact that everything is so overgrown. Markers could be used in a few strategic places, but if there were an established footbed, not many markers would be needed. Also sometimes the problem is not lack of markers, but difficulty in seeing them, because of young trees which need cutting back. This trail needs lots of cutting, and lots of feet to walk it.

There is only one point on which I would disagree slightly with Beav-I don't agree that the section between the fire tower and the Willow junction is in "great shape." Beav is correct that there is no significant blowdown and the section is not difficult to follow, but even this section is significantly overgrown in places with brambles. It needs cutting back as well. However, it is indeed in much better shape than the Carl Mt. sections, and thus is maybe a lower priority.

I'll write more when I get a chance. We will have more time to discuss strategy. One last note-we ran into Pete Senterman's son on the trail Sunday AM, so he may have passed some good info on to Pete by now.
My friend Ted also sent Pete an e-mail to discuss his observations on the trail. I know Cindy has been in contact with Pete as well.

Matt

[Snickers]

Thanks so much for the trail reports and Beav700 for the map. Looks like we will have a busy weekend.

Jason, don't forget that case of beer.

Cindy