Off Topic Alert --- Any Zeppelin fans in the house.

[Mavs00]

Excuse the WAAAAAAAY, of topic nature of this post, but I figured one or two of you 70's kids might appreciate it.

Some of you may know, Nick's learning the guitar.

Anyway, he goes over to his buddy's house today to jam with him, which is only the second time they played together. So anyway, he comes home and needs my help downloading and uploading a little jam they recorded. So, as I was helping him, I couldn't help but giggle. You'd figure two 15 y/o utes of today would record some modern-ish alternative rock ditty. Nope, they dug out a 40 year old re-worked Zeppelin classic. I heard snippits of him playing it in his roon, but until another element joined in, it sounded like jibberish. It took me back to me younger days.

Anyway, I figured there were enough throwback hippy's here that woud get a kick out of it too. Perhaps it'll remind you of your younger days and the things you did back then as it did me.

Go - HERE- to listen

Oh yeah, I thouroghly searched his room afterward (he's really a good kid).

** - Keep in mind, he's just a 15 y/o kid who's never had a lesson in his life. Jimmy Page he ain't, so keep that in mind. Also, they just set a mic out in front of the amps and played, so don't expect much quality. It's enough to get the point accross, and that what matters.

First one to guess the song gets tickets to woodstock

[rdl]

It's really hard not to get that one after the first few licks --

Trying to scream like Robert Plant here: I've been Dazed and Confused for so long...

[hillman1]

When I was in high school, I use to play along with Zeppelin 1 every day. I used to love that album. Glad to see people still listen to it.

[ken]

haha! Awesome! Well done Nick..

[billandjudy]

I'm pretty much dazed and confused all the time I've played for 40 years--Had a band in high school--used to play this myself!! Rock On

[Mavs00]

Originally Posted by pete_hickey

Do you play anything?

Nope, not a musical bone in my body.

Glad this was taken in the spirit it was meant. I really found it kinda funny. I still like to listen to older stuff myself, but my Zeppelin days are LONG behind me and it's not really like he "grew up" listening to it. He listens to (and plays) the same stuff I did when I was yonger, stuff like Zeppelin, quite a few Floyd tunes (the other song they recorded was "Wish You Were Here"), some Who. Lots of Gun's n Roses too, in fact we recently banned "Sweet child O' Mine" from the house He played it well enough, but I just got so GD sick of that song wafting down from his room. I still twitch when I hear it on the radio.

He's really only played a couple years and is really just goofing off in his room, certainly nothing formal. This is really the first time her's ever played with anyone else, so I found it really odd they picked a tune from before MY YOUTH even to start with. Must be that every kid that gets a guitar starts at square one (which is, apparently, Zeppelin tunes ).

I figured this crew would get a giggle out of it.

p.s. Pete, I've heard those before, great stuff . Feel free, post a link to your own tunes if ya got, em. Long as it doesn't go overboard, that's what the "Fun Stuff" in this section means. Apologies to those just looking for hiking stuff.

[judgeh]

Accolades from the time of my wayward youth...far out...cool...groovy

[neighbor]

always admired people who can play instruments. way to go nick, chicks dig that stuff!!!
i have a trumpet in the closet,would love to learn how to play it one day.
i saw zep at knebworth fields(sp) in hertfordshire (sp) england in 1979. very cool outdoor show!!!

http://www.knebworthhouse.com/rock/rockconcerts.htm

[stoopid]

You know I produce some songs in my spare time (haven't in a while, taking a break). Been playing for about 14 years, but started much later than your son (think I was 17 when I bought my first geetar). The fact he's already jamming with someone else at 15 is a sign that he has some skills. FYI - I didn't do drugs until college, so in a few more years you might want to check his dorm room.

You'd be surprised how many Rush, Zeppelin, AC/DC, etc teenage fans there are. Not all of them think Limp Biscuit are the next coming. In fact, I've had a chance to listen to the radio since I started a new job 3 months ago, and MOST of what I hear sounds exactly the same song to son.... BY (supposedly) DIFFERENT ARTISTS. Pop radio has become a genre, not a means of playing music anymore. I think this has been a trend for quite a while now, probably since the 80's when everyone wanted to sound like Duran Duran and the Thompson Twins (Electronica Rock). None of that stuff takes very long to master on an instrument. It's fluff, like talking to a blonde high school dropout supermodel.

The reason bands like Rush, ELP, Yes, Zeppelin, and the like are still being played by musicians today is that there's a level of complexity in the music that a musician can appreciate. A real musician pushes their limits of playing ability regularly, it keeps us interested. While in a cover band a few years ago I learned some Tom Petty and Bush songs, both purely pop, and both pure junk. Rehashed bar-chord lines, basic 4/4 beats. Blah. I didn't stay with that gig for long! lol

Much of my music collection is from before I was born (1975). There's still some stuff being produced (like Dream Theater, non-mainstream) that has some complexity, but it's becoming increasingly harder for record companies to justify producing those albums when the quick money can be made with following the status quo.

[Vona]

That's how it all begins. There is a DVD out for a couple years called "Tom Dowd and the Language of Music". Tom Dowd being the recording engineer who created the "Atlantic Sound" and is responsible for the original Zepellin recordings. Anyway, in this biographical dvd there is an interview with Les Paul who besides creating the electric guitar, also was first to use 8 track recording techniques. He references his early days when he was a kid just getting started out when he was in his home studio (the bathroom because of the acoustics) making his first recordings.

So, I would encourage the lad- a few bum notes here and there, otherwise it ain't bad. One thing though to you, Nick, is you have to do a Pete Townsend with that Les Paul and get yourself a stratocaster- you'll be much better off in the long run.

Oh and the notion that modern pop music is "music" is a bit naive. It's about commerce. That's why it is so homogeneous. The sad thing is that it reflects us as a society. If it didn't sell it wouldn't be out there. At the lake placid film fesitval there was a film called "Before the music dies" interesting on this topic.

The good news is that there are some bright points out there. Pick up the latest album from The Derek Trucks Band. It's solid. Thankfully, Eric Clapton has taken this kid under his wing and they are on stage together- which gets Derek the exposure that he deserves.

[pete_hickey]

Listened to it. Nice. There is something about a 'dirty' production that I like. It is REAL. It is something missing from most of the sterile digital productions of today.

Originally Posted by Mavs00

Nope, not a musical bone in my body.

Too bad. Along with hiking, it is a nice activity to share.... But for me, it's just memories from the past, since the kid pretty much doesn't live at home any more.

and it's not really like he "grew up" listening to it. He listens to (and plays) the same stuff I did when I was yonger

It was the same thing with my guy (just the youngest) Around here (at least) there seems to be a 'cult' that likes the older stuff. He used to come home saying, "Did you ever hear of....." And I'd say, "Yeah."

Know what I found amazing? I taught him to play guitar, but it didn't take him long to be a better guitarist than I... Same thing skiing.....hiking ("Hey dad, let me take some weight from your pack. You're moving too slow.") (See how I can move an Off topic thread more on-topic!)

Kids have it 'easy' these days. I don't mean that in a bad sense. I'm envious. The net is such a resource for music, tabs, that wasn't available when I was younger. It lets them go further faster... You know.. kind of like kids grownig up with goretex and GPS (how am I doing at keeping this more on-topic). Heck, even CD's that you can easily stop/restart when trying to learn something. It was a real pain with vinyl...Maybe that's my excuse for not being as good a guitar player as JR. Gotta think of one for skiing and hiking.

He played it well enough, but I just got so GD sick of that song wafting down from his room. I still twitch when I hear it on the radio.

You sound like a grouchy old parent.

He's really only played a couple years and is really just goofing off in his room, certainly nothing formal.

That's the way to start.

[Mavs00]

Originally Posted by pete_hickey

Listened to it. Nice. There is something about a 'dirty' production that I like. It is REAL. It is something missing from most of the sterile digital productions of today.

Yeah, I tried to tell him that songwas a "touch" cleaner, and he would have none of it. I guess when it comes to Zepp the rule of thumb is "heavy on a the reverb, baby". Plus, you may have noticed, he is a real note bender, he just loves doing it, whether the tune calls for it or not.

In case any case anyone else was interested, here was the other tune they did (Floyd).

Wish you were here : Warning: direct download - 3.4 MB

In alot of ways, I like this one much better. 1) I think it's a harder song to coordinate and thus, they did a better job (although, it's rough). 2) I'm a sucker for Floyd and Wish you were here is one of my favorite albums.

p.s btw, Nick plays lead and is the second guitar you hear. His buddy is a base player normally and is pretty rough up front and strumming. He's only been playing about the same as Nick. You'll get the idea though.

Anyway.....

[Willie]

That was fun to listen to. But I think my volume was too high - several attorneys and secretaries were poking their heads in my office wondering what I was listening to. I just told them that I was working on a new copyright infringement case. So much for law firm decorum...

[ADKatie]

Another item of note. The cheese-ball silliness you hear at the beginning or end of either song is Anthony, Nick's goofball friend/scoutmate. Kid cracks me up.

I'm thinkin' Led Z wasn't a Boy Scout. OR a hiker. Certainly NOT a bushwacker. Nor, for that matter, most likely, were any of the members of Pink Floyd. I'm just sayin'.

[Mavs00]

Originally Posted by ADKatie

Certainly NOT a bushwacker. Nor, for that matter, most likely, were any of the members of Pink Floyd. I'm just sayin'.

Now, now, now..... Don't be so presumptious. Pink was an obvious whacker, how else would he have been able to record, the timeless classic; "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict"....

Which, without a has to be one of the weirdest tunes ever recorded.

[AlpineSummit]

AGGHHH - My ears are bleeding!

[masshysteria]

Originally Posted by Vona

That's how it all begins. There is a DVD out for a couple years called "Tom Dowd and the Language of Music". Tom Dowd being the recording engineer who created the "Atlantic Sound" and is responsible for the original Zepellin recordings. Anyway, in this biographical dvd there is an interview with Les Paul who besides creating the electric guitar, also was first to use 8 track recording techniques. He references his early days when he was a kid just getting started out when he was in his home studio (the bathroom because of the acoustics) making his first recordings.

So, I would encourage the lad- a few bum notes here and there, otherwise it ain't bad. One thing though to you, Nick, is you have to do a Pete Townsend with that Les Paul and get yourself a stratocaster- you'll be much better off in the long run.


The good news is that there are some bright points out there. Pick up the latest album from The Derek Trucks Band. It's solid. Thankfully, Eric Clapton has taken this kid under his wing and they are on stage together- which gets Derek the exposure that he deserves.

Vona, If I'm not mistaken, Tom Dowd had something to do with the Allman Brothers? Specifcally, their "Live at Fillmore" concerts, which many, including myself, consider THE BEST live recordings EVER!

Couldn't agree with you more about Derek Trucks, that kid is a phenom! I just bought a live DVD of the ABB playing at the Beacon in NYC. It is a religious event to watch him play that slide guitar. It's not surprising you say he's working with EC. After all, Derek's mentor, Duane Allman spent some quality time with EC back in the day. What was that called, Derek and the Dominoes....? They made some sweet music together!


Most kids seem to be in tune to the "modern" music out there today. But as they grow older, they seem to gravitate toward the "classics" . My daughter, when she was in her teens, would only listen to FLY 92, the local Rap station. Now she's listening to PYX 106, classic rock, and can play 'Name That Tune' with the best of them. She's not good enough to beat the Old Man, yet......

Now Nick, find yourself an old bow, a double-necked Strat, and make magic like Jimmy Page did on 'Dazed and Confused"!!

Being almost 50ish, I remember the hippies that Tim mentions, just wasn't old enough to be one. But the garage bands that I remember from the era all had to play their rendition of "Stairway to Heaven". I don't remember any of them ever having any modest success with it.

[Daniel Eagan]

Originally Posted by masshysteria

Vona, If I'm not mistaken, Tom Dowd had something to do with the Allman Brothers? Specifcally, their "Live at Fillmore" concerts, which many, including myself, consider THE BEST live recordings EVER!

In addition to engineering those great Aretha Franklin Atlantic singles, and the best of the early Ray Charles, Tom Dowd also produced and engineered Derek & the Dominos. He introduced Duane Allman to Eric Clapton. Dowd also is responsible for Cream, Blind Faith, and the sound for a lot of the other Atlantic artists.

The fllm Vona mentioned is not only an excellent biography of Dowd, who had an amazing life, but a very good history of the changes in pop music over the past fifty years. (He also demonstrates what it would be like to mix "Layla.")

I take exception to one comment Vona made: "Oh and the notion that modern pop music is 'music' is a bit naive. It's about commerce. That's why it is so homogeneous. The sad thing is that it reflects us as a society."

I can't think of a popular musician from any time period who wasn't trying to make money. Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash--they were all in it for the "commerce." Read Mozart's letters, and they're almost all about money.

People thought Frank Sinatra was a sell-out back in the 1940s. Are the Beach Boys art or commerce or both? Is "Magic Bus" any less of a song when it is used in a car commercial? There will always be "good" and "bad" pop songs, and if they reflect society at all, it's usually as a snapshot that is constantly changing.

[MattC]

I can definitely relate to this. I started playing guitar at 12, after seeing Black Sabbath at the Glens Falls Civic Center on my 12th birthday. I took lessons on and off, I learned from friends, I taught myself stuff, I stole stuff off records by ear. I sponged up anything I could from any source, w/ no shame. I was into all the classic rock, definitely including Led Zeppelin. This stuff led me into blues, which was the first style I got really "serious" about and is still my forte and probably always will be. Eventually I went back to college in my late twenties and studied classical guitar for a while. I also dabbled in bebop, but don't consider myself a classical or jazz player by any stretch-just a blues player that went to college who takes inspiration from a variety of sources.

Anyhow, I have a non-music day job, and probably always will, but I've played hundreds of paying gigs over the years, overwhelmingly in blues and "roots"-type bands, have given lots of guitar lessons, etc. It's a nice source of extra money and far, far more importantly it's just great fun. I've never played a gig where I didn't enjoy the music I was playing. (Whether or not I enjoyed the place I was playing is another matter entirely). I also find teaching guitar very, very rewarding.

Occasionally a gig will get me to a really fun place-like this coming Saturday I'll be playing a house party in Killington, VT, which as I understand is near some mountains. So the point of all this self-centered banter is this-you never know where the jamming in the bedroom at 15 will end up. Even if one never makes any money or plays for an audience, it's still great. Playing music isn't just for "professional" musicians, rock stars, etc.

As for the whole thing about young folks still liking "old" music. I don't see it as a big deal really. If you step back and think about it, British/American pop/rock music of the last 40 years is just a tiny fraction of all the music of the world. There is so much out there: a) from other times, b) from other places, c) that simply hasn't been recorded. The seeming importance of these pop/rock bands is amplified simply because media and commerce projects their music farther afield than many other musics. Also, because of the way the industry is constantly hyping "the next big thing", there is an illusion created that music is actually changing and being inovated constantly (it isn't). So 40 years doesn't really seem all that long to me. There is plenty of music far older than that which is still very vital. JS Bach died over 250 years ago-his music still sounds pretty good.

I don't know exactly know why some music is timeless, but I disagree w/ Kevin (Stoopid) that it has to do w/ complexity. John Lee Hooker played very simple music, often based off of one chord! His music sounds as brilliant as ever today and people will continue to listen to it probably for decades, if not centuries. I think there is some great music that is complex, some great music that is very, very simple, and that there is probably boring, dated music both simple and complex as well. I don't think complexity has one iota to do w/ how "good", intesting, exciting, or timeless music is. I love the complex music of Igor Stravinsky and I equally love the fast, short, dumb songs of the Ramones. Both make their musical point w/ equal competence and conviction.

I think whatever makes music timeless and enduring is more intangible. Some people call it "soul" or sincerity. I don't know, I just think some music is convincing and other stuff, not so much. I also agree w/ Daniel Eagan that there is nothing inherently wrong with "pop" music. He mentions some of the greatest musical artists of the 20th century, all of whom wanted to "make it", no doubt. There have always been lots of great musicians who would probably love to "sell out", but nobody's buying.

Wow, I just wrote a lot. That's what y'all get for running a thread about music when I'm near the keyboard. Back to the original point, keep at it Nick, don't worry so much about what anybody thinks, just play what sounds good to you. If you have trouble with a guitar technique issue, just slow down until you get it. Remember to listen very carefully to yourself. Your ears are way more important than your hands. Also, rhythm is ten times more important than pitch-and pitch is really important.

Don't be afraid of more formal study if that's what you want to do. Some folks will tell you that study and discipline will take away your creativity and "soul." Nonsense. Likewise, don't hesitate to just learn your own way if that's what you want. Other folks might say you can't do anything w/ music if you don't learn the "right" way. Equally nonsensical.
Do what makes you happy. It it sounds good, it is good. Rock on.

Matt

[Neil]

Tim, Sylvie and I listened to Zep 1 and Wish you Were Here and Umma Gumma whiledriving around the Dacks the last couple of weeks.

I started my kids on Old Beatles, Elvis and the Beach Boys when they were 2, 5 and 7. Then I started picking up albums like Zep 1, Dark Side, Close to the Edge. Gradually, the kids went out and bought every album ever produced by the Beatles, the Doors, Zep. Flloyd, The Who, King Crimson, Yes etc. etc. From there we moved to Zappa and Miles Davis. My oldest formed a Zeppilin cover band and played bass, a bit of keyboards and sang and they even got a few gigs. They learned all the Zeppelin tunes by downloading "tabs".