Dayhiking versus camping

[Commissionpoint]

This thread has been created by splitting off the discussion on dayhiking versus camping and backpacking from this thread.
-Neil

Originally Posted by DSettahr

If you're in good shape, with an early enough start, you should have no problem doing all three of these peaks in a single day- no need to worry about camping, legally or otherwise.

Some folks like to camp. I do. You do, or if not you spend a lot of time doing it anyways.

Sometimes I get a little aggro on the modern focus on dayhiking. FFS. Folks spend an eternity running to trailheads at the crack of crazy to rush up some hill, possibly taking some pictures on the way (As a token of proof you were there? Is ther some kinda contest I havent seen the flyer for?), only to turn around and rush back out before it gets dark.

Sooo...... Whats the deal? Why don't people camp anymore? Scared of the dark? Animals? Only 'In Love' with the 'Daks' during daylight hours? Spent the wad on the daypack and too broke to buy a tent now? Only in shape insofar as to carry a daypack, but not to carry an overnighter? No more fires means no more whiskey fueled impromtu boxing matches at 3am, so its just not any fun anymore?

I don't get it. Considering how far some folks drive and what it continually costs them to do so I would figure people would try to do whatever they could to extend thier stay on the trail. Camping seems like a natural choice.

Folks get all into it and ask about what trail runners and daypack do you reccomend until the cows come home. I'd like to hear more discussion on things like whats in your dehydrator, or whats Nido and how can it improve my breakfast options. Maybe then we could get into things like 'When Nature Calls: Your Friend The Plastic Trowel', or, 'Backpacking and Staying Regular: A Guide to Black Raspberries, Blueberries, and Other Things (Which Keep The Mail Moving)'

On the otherhand, theres always: "How fast do you think I can bag the Sewards with a 14 ounce pack, barefoot, in my underwear?".

[abovethesink]

Originally Posted by Commissionpoint

On the otherhand, theres always: "How fast do you think I can bag the Sewards with a 14 ounce pack, barefoot, in my underwear?".

How many ounces of blood are the black flies draining per hour on average? What are the highs and lows in those numbers? The median?

I'll need more info.

[Commissionpoint]

Originally Posted by abovethesink

How many ounces of blood are the black flies draining per hour on average? What are the highs and lows in those numbers? The median?

I'll need more info.

For mere mortals its a simple linear regression model based on body mass and density of swarm. Swarm data can be interpolated by reading ADK HP Forums.

Blackflies are only attracted to people with out of state plates anyhow, so I assume you only ask from an academic standpoint.

Oh, and before I completely forget, to the OP..... Don't camp in the Saddleback/Gothics col. There hasn't been a way to do that legally in quite some time. Gothics lean-to has been gone since Pete was still drinking Guiness with a nipple on the bottle.

[goneja]

Originally Posted by Commissionpoint

Sooo...... Whats the deal? Why don't people camp anymore? Scared of the dark? Animals? Only 'In Love' with the 'Daks' during daylight hours? Spent the wad on the daypack and too broke to buy a tent now? Only in shape insofar as to carry a daypack, but not to carry an overnighter? No more fires means no more whiskey fueled impromtu boxing matches at 3am, so its just not any fun anymore?

Don't know about you, I don't mind sleeping out there, but every single night is HORRIFIC sleep - pains all over, my air mattress giving me crap, and my down sleeping bag clammy as all hell. Not to mention the hot-as-hell-then-cold-as-hell temperature variance. I have never had a good night in the daks except for at the loj with a full size air mattress I could haul from the car easily.

There was a thunderstorm all night a week ago near Indian Head, the humidity of my tent and sleeping bag was so horrible, I could barely stand it. Can't get out of the tent as it is pouring all mighty hellwater and lightning so abundant as to appear as a flashlight from outside my tent. And they are good brands.. nothing I could do but sleep on top of it.. then I had to deal with the wet netting of my tent as the raindrops were falling so hard as to splash off the ground and up onto my tent walls.


Then there is the heaven that is Art Devlin's and dinner in lake placid followed by an hour long hot shower.. go figure someone would prefer that

[pete_hickey]

Originally Posted by Commissionpoint

......Sometimes I get a little aggro on the modern focus on dayhiking. FFS. Folks spend an eternity running to trailheads at the crack of crazy to rush up some hill, possibly taking some pictures on the way (As a token of proof you were there? Is ther some kinda contest I havent seen the flyer for?), only to turn around and rush back out before it gets dark.

DEC stats show that backpacking is down and dayhiking is up. Trend has been continuing for more than 10 years now. Note that it is now a 'sport'. It used to be just walking.

I'd like to hear more discussion on things like whats in your dehydrator, or whats Nido and how can it improve my breakfast options. Maybe then we could get into things like 'When Nature Calls: Your Friend The Plastic Trowel', or, 'Backpacking and Staying Regular: A Guide to Black Raspberries, Blueberries, and Other Things (Which Keep The Mail Moving)'.......

While there is the trend in general, this forum exemplifies the sport nature of bagging peaks.... the more difficult the better. Note that, around here, when someone new posts for a simple hike, the response is always a peak to climb.. usually one of the easier 46.... but then look at the name of this forum.

I'd guess that half the people around here are not familiar with the plastic trowel.....but I'd bet 90% would know on the 'sister forum'

[PA Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Commissionpoint

...Sometimes I get a little aggro on the modern focus on dayhiking. FFS....

Translation, please.

How 'bout this old chestnut, HYOH? I'm glad you like to camp...have at it!

I like a nice hot shower after my hike, and a comfy mattress to sleep on. That doesn't mean that I rush through my hikes with blinders on, tag the summit, and then rush back to the car. Just sayin'.

[Trail Boss]

CommissionPoint,
My excuse is "simplicity". A small pack to hold a jacket and shirt, a little food, water, and a few sundry items, and I'm good to go for an all day hike. Most of my objectives in the High Peaks are accessible as day-hikes so I haven't found the need to camp. I have backpacked, in the past, and truly enjoyed camping in the High Peaks. An overnighter exposes one to another dimension of the outdoors. However, I now feel that an overnighter is a completely separate, and optional, outdoor experience whereas in the past I thought it was essential to reach distant peaks. If I had the genes to be a trail-runner, that's how I'd roll!

[rbi99]

An additional problem is that in order to backpack and enjoy the freedom it encompasses, you just about need a second job to pay for the items you will need in order to "get away from it all". That being said, I have my stuff and backpacking is right up at the top of my favorites list.

[Trail Boss]

Was backpacking gear ever "cheap"? Given its popularity, I'd argue its currently cheaper than ever. When I started backpacking in the late Seventies, there were very few outdoor stores in Montreal catering to backpackers (1 or 2). Sure, my family had massive, rectangular sleeping bags from LeBaron but, damn, one bag would occupy over three cubic feet. A decent North Face Cat's Meow set me back $110 (after 10% US-Cdn exchange) in 1979. My Jansport IsoDome cost $200 from EMS in 1980 and it was an irregular (fly and body colors did not match). Nowadays you get a wider selection of gear for comparably less money.

[lionelhutz]

I'd argue that hiking and backpacking are two seperate experiences. I'm one of those people that equally enjoy long distance day hikes and several night camping trips. For me however they are two distinct experiences.
When I'm day hiking I like to push myself a little more, get a sweat up, challenge myself, see some neat stuff.
When I'm backpacking it's more about the disconnection with the regular world. No Phones, no tv, no internet. Just walking in the woods. Plus you can create some really need loops that aren't accessable as day-hikes.

There really isn't a way to say "one is better"...it's a matter of apples and oranges.
Which one do you feel like...

[SanDimas1988]

I accept your challenge, and will camp in order to bag a peak next Sunday night. I already had plans to do Giant and Rocky Peak Ridge. Any time I go to the Adirondacks, I end up at a campground (KOA or the Loj) because I don't know any better, and I don't like paying the money, but it's easiest. I have all the gear to backpack, but I only have ever done it on relatively flat ground.

My question is, where can I camp on Giant? I'll get there a bit earlier than I planned on Sunday night, and backpack to a campsite. I'll camp overnight, stash my gear, bring my water and get my peaks, then return to the camp.

[Neil]

For decades hiking and backpacking were interchangeable and synonymous terms for me. I always headed out with my frame pack, tent and sleeping bag.

When I started hiking in the Adirondacks about 10 years ago I was still in backpacking mode but gradually I became a "summit oriented day hiker". Day hiking allows me to do a lot more hiking because I'm only away from home for one day. What I appreciate about day hiking is that I can go much farther and get into places and do things that would be a lot tougher with a backpack. After the types of hikes I enjoy doing I would just as soon not have to take care of myself, get water, cook food etc. etc. Were I to plan on a backpack in the Adirondacks I think I would combine it milder hikes.

There is no doubt that something is lost by not staying out overnight but something else is gained.

Peakbaggers seem take a lot of heat but they rarely, if ever, criticize people who derive pleasure from activities different from theirs.

On another note, if everyone who dayhiked in the High Peaks became backpackers would there be problems due to their collective impact?

Originally Posted by SanDimas1988

My question is, where can I camp on Giant?

There is a designated site at the Giant's Washbowl and there is a Lean-to one mile due north of Giant. Also, you can camp anywhere below 3500 feet as long as you are 250 feet from water and the trail.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by SanDimas1988

My question is, where can I camp on Giant? I'll get there a bit earlier than I planned on Sunday night, and backpack to a campsite. I'll camp overnight, stash my gear, bring my water and get my peaks, then return to the camp.

There are several campsites in the vicinity of Roaring Brook Falls... In particular, one very nice (but obviously popular) site above the falls.

There is at least 1 designated campsite at Giant's Washbowl.

And there's also the lean-to north of Giant. Probably one of the least used lean-tos in the Adirondacks- hardly anyone ever goes there. Getting there is a hike in itself, though- it's something like 5 or 6 miles from the road.

[SanDimas1988]

What do you find what are designated campsites? Is there information online, or is it in any of the guidebooks, or do you just have to find them?

[LI_Hiker]

When the weather is good and the bugs are not biting, I would rather camp out than stay in a 5 star hotel. I love every part of camping. Tenting in the rain can be a pain but if it is just a day or two I can deal with it.

If I am in a leanto, let the rain come down. I always bring a small book. I have met some really nice people in leantos.

Day hikes are great too.

[LI_Hiker]

Originally Posted by SanDimas1988

What do you find what are designated campsites? Is there information online, or is it in any of the guidebooks, or do you just have to find them?

I don't know where this guy got these maps but they sure are nice.

http://www.practicaloutdoors.com/adk/maps/adkmaps.html

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by SanDimas1988

What do you find what are designated campsites? Is there information online, or is it in any of the guidebooks, or do you just have to find them?

Figuring out where there are designated campsites in the Adirondacks is one of the most frustratingly difficult aspects of planing backpacking trips. The short answer: The best and most accurate way to find designated campsites is to get out there and find them on your own.

There are some ways you can gather some information prior to a trip, though:

• You can look on a map: Unfortunately, the National Geographic maps don't show campsites (with the single exception of Wanika Falls). I understand that the next edition of the NG maps will show campsites- I'm curious to see how this will be implemented without making the maps more cluttered and confusing.
  
  The paper High Peaks map produced by the ADK does show designated campsites- at least their general location. It's important to note, though, that this information is not 100% accurate- there are some designated sites missing from the map, and there is at least one site shown as being designated that is actually an illegal site (like the Dix Range bivy site).
  
  The ADK paper maps for other areas of the park outside the High Peaks, however, show very few (if any) of the designated tent sites that exist.
  
  (The best map showing designated campsites I've ever seen is the VentureOut map of the Catskills, but even it was missing a few sites. Unfortunately, it's no longer in print.)
  
  
• You can look in the guidebook: The ADK and Discover series both will often mention campsites. It's important, though, to take this information with a grain of salt. Particularly the ADK guidebooks (but also the Discover guidebooks to some extent) are really bad about indicating whether a campsite is a legal/designated one or not. In fact, a good portion, if not the majority, of the campsites mentioned in the ADK guidebooks are not legal- and only rarely will the guidebook make any indication of this.
  
  
• You can look it up in the UMP: The Unit Management Plan is probably the most accurate source of information concerning designated tent sites. In the appendices of each UMP, there is usually a map that shows all lean-tos and designated tent sites within that unit. Unfortunately, the UMPs for each area aren't always readily available. In addition, the information may still not even be all that accurate. The UMP may show a designated tent site that hasn't actually been designated yet. Some changes may also have been made since the UMP was written; some designated sites may have been closed, or new sites may have been designated that aren't shown.
  
  
• You can ask people who've been there: Places like ADK High Peaks and ADK Forum are great sources of information, and usually that information is pretty reliable. You have to be careful with word of mouth information though, as it's accuracy is often the hardest to verify.
  
  In particular, people who are new to backpacking in the Adirondacks will often make the mistake of assuming that if a campsite has a fire ring and looks like it's been used, that it is therefore a legal site, regardless of the fact that it is missing the yellow "Camp Here" disc that the DEC uses to designate sites. Occasionally, such misinformation will even make it's way on to these forums. Sometimes, someone will suggest a campsite that isn't legal, or someone will post a trip report that indicates that they camped illegally (or shows it in their photo album!). It's hardly ever vindictive or willful violation of the regulations- they just didn't know.
  
  Also, hikers have a tendency to drastically underestimate just how far 150 feet is when they are attempting to determine if a site is legal or not.

So even though there are issues with any single source of information, if you use all of them combined to plan your trips, you can be reasonably certain of where you can expect to find designated campsites. However, it's still important to verify it when you arrive- look for the yellow "Camp Here" disc. If you find it, you're all set.

If you don't find it, then you need to reassess your information and it's accuracy. It's possible that the "Camp Here" disc was torn down (it sometimes does happen). But it's much more likely that your information was somehow incorrect... and then it's time to either look around nearby to see if the true designated spot is perhaps maybe a few hundred feet further down the trail, or consider camping primitively, 150+ feet from the trail/water/roads.

Hope that helps.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by LI_Hiker

I don't know where this guy got these maps but they sure are nice.

http://www.practicaloutdoors.com/adk/maps/adkmaps.html

Those I believe were prepared using the DEC's spatial data, which is freely available but requires the use of GIS software to view (which in itself can cost thousands of dollars).

It's worth noting that on some of those maps, someone messed up their datums, perhaps in collecting the information, perhaps in displaying it- the trails are displayed shifted several hundred feet from where they actually are (look at the Lake Colden map- the trail goes right through the lake!).

So if you're using one of those maps to find a campsite, and you think the site should be on the right side of the trail, and you can't find it- try looking on the left side of the trail instead!

[Commissionpoint]

Oh look what I started..........

Just to clarify a little. I am not casting aspersions on peakbaggers or any other group who identifies themselves as enthusiasts. Just trying to understand a little better different folks motivations for getting outside.

Some have said they would prefer not to cook or have to do other mundane camp activities so they dayhike. Some have stated a hot shower and warm bed is an important part of the post hike ritual. Some feel the gear is spendy and maybe its not in the budget right now. All of those are easy to understand reasons people have for dayhiking rather than camping out.

It still kinda makes me laugh a little though how some folks spend thier entire hiking carrer rushing to and from some TH or another to get some hike in, but never spend a night out. I guess its an interesting kind of irony that maybe only some of us see.

For the record I both dayhike, and camp, but I prefer to camp. I like to take several days and pick a place to explore. I often find its not possible for me to appreciate what an area I have chosen to explore has to offer in a single day. Sometimes 2 or 3 days aren't even enough for me and I go back to that place at another time to explore more.

To the fella hiking Giant and planning to camp out. The ADK map has both campsites and lean-tos on it. Mary Louise is the only lean-to I know of around there and is probably the one Jackson mentioned.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by Commissionpoint

To the fella hiking Giant and planning to camp out. The ADK map has both campsites and lean-tos on it. Mary Louise is the only lean-to I know of around there and is probably the one Jackson mentioned.

There is no lean-to at Mary Louise. Just a designated campsite. The lean-to is north of Giant, in the pass between Giant and Green.

Didn't think my words posted above about word-of-mouth information having questionable accuracy would be exemplified so soon. (Said in jest!)