Good Idea/ Bad Idea

lionelhutz · 06-17-2012, 11:04 AM

Long story short: Day hike of the Santanoni range from Flowed Lands (or campsite at intersection of Calamity brook trail and indian pass crossover): good idea or bad idea?

Commissionpoint · 06-17-2012, 11:13 AM

Not impossible but a VERY long day. The Calamity/IP campsite is now on the other side of the brook due to the re-route. Duck Hole or Bradley Pond would be better camping choices for your proposed route I would tend to think.

DSettahr · 06-17-2012, 11:25 AM

You'd have to be in really, really, extremely good shape for this to be possible, especially from Flowed Lands.

Forget going past Duck Hole. The Preston Pond trail starts out flat and easy, but it becomes pretty rugged in the last 2 miles from Hunter Pond to Duck Hole. You'd also have to cross the Cold River without a bridge, which could be easy or hard depending on how much it's rained. And the Duck Hole to Bradley Pond trail starts out really nice and flat for the first four miles south of Duck Hole... but then it turns into a mess for the last mile of climbing to the pond. That stretch of trail is one of the worst stretches of trail I've ever hiked. It's very, very eroded, and there are old logging road bridges that are rotten and slippery and filled with rusty nails sticking out.

It'd be much faster to just hike/drive down the road to the Santanoni Trailhead and go in that way.

But yeah, like Commissionpoint says... probably better to just camp at Bradley Pond.

Duck Hole would work too (and you'd probably see fewer people there), but then you'd still have to deal with that nasty stretch of trail.

Commissionpoint · 06-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Yeh I didn't get into the bit about that nasty mile or so from Bradley Pond heading north to Duck Hole. Truly its really a horrible mess through that bit, but as already has been mentioned, Duck Hole is likely to be very quiet so it may be worth the added effort to camp there if solitude is high on the priority list. Bradley Pond is a nice lean-to, but it does see a lot of use so you are less likely to have it to yourself compared to Duck Hole.

JoeCedar · 06-18-2012, 10:30 AM

A simple way to estimate a hiking day like this is to add up the mileage, divide by 2 mph to get the approx. hours total time that the hike would take. Then you decide whether you can go that long or not. Consider that most people slow down after about 10 hours (or even sooner). For herdpaths, very rough trails, or lots of vertical ascent, you might even use a number smaller than 2 mph. If you are a slow hiker or like to stop a lot (or in winter), then maybe use 1.5 or 1.6 mph.

vieWseeker · 06-18-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCedar

A simple way to estimate a hiking day like this is to add up the mileage, divide by 2 mph to get the approx. hours total time that the hike would take. Then you decide whether you can go that long or not. Consider that most people slow down after about 10 hours (or even sooner). For herdpaths, very rough trails, or lots of vertical ascent, you might even use a number smaller than 2 mph. If you are a slow hiker or like to stop a lot (or in winter), then maybe use 1.5 or 1.6 mph.

i use 1.5mph... but this trip could be described as EPIC from the FL.....

bignslow · 06-18-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCedar

A simple way to estimate a hiking day like this is to add up the mileage, divide by 2 mph to get the approx. hours total time that the hike would take. Then you decide whether you can go that long or not. Consider that most people slow down after about 10 hours (or even sooner). For herdpaths, very rough trails, or lots of vertical ascent, you might even use a number smaller than 2 mph. If you are a slow hiker or like to stop a lot (or in winter), then maybe use 1.5 or 1.6 mph.

Don't forget that Joe is super-human.

Us mere mortals use 2 MPH + 1 hour per 2000 feet of gain (this is the way the white mountain guide calculates "book time"). This has the added benefit of adjusting to trail difficulty (the 2.3 miles to Marcy Dam are going to go by a lot faster than the ~2 miles to the summit of Cascade).

I actually find it really fun to develop your own book time, when I first started hiking, the "up" really hit me hard, so I had "Mike time" which was 2 MPH + 1 hour per 1000 feet of gain. As I got faster, and beyond book time, I've found I can maintain a new "Mike time" of 3 MPH + 1 hour per 2000 feet of gain, but only on shorter hikes.

DackerDan · 06-18-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignslow

Don't forget that Joe is super-human.

Us mere mortals use 2 MPH + 1 hour per 2000 feet of gain (this is the way the white mountain guide calculates "book time"). This has the added benefit of adjusting to trail difficulty (the 2.3 miles to Marcy Dam are going to go by a lot faster than the ~2 miles to the summit of Cascade).

I actually find it really fun to develop your own book time, when I first started hiking, the "up" really hit me hard, so I had "Mike time" which was 2 MPH + 1 hour per 1000 feet of gain. As I got faster, and beyond book time, I've found I can maintain a new "Mike time" of 3 MPH + 1 hour per 2000 feet of gain, but only on shorter hikes.

For us I use 3mph + 1hr per 1000' up or down. That is sans full pack, only a day pack. You strap on a heavy pack and the number is more like 2mph and I can't even estimate climb time because we don't lug our stuff up many hills.

DSettahr · 06-18-2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignslow

Us mere mortals use 2 MPH + 1 hour per 2000 feet of gain (this is the way the white mountain guide calculates "book time"). This has the added benefit of adjusting to trail difficulty (the 2.3 miles to Marcy Dam are going to go by a lot faster than the ~2 miles to the summit of Cascade).

Another way to think of it is that every 1000 feet of gain is equivalent to 1 mile over flat ground.

lionelhutz · 06-18-2012, 01:08 PM

Yea...it's not a pace thing. I can do the distance.

It's really more a quesiton of "Man...why the hell would you want to add the Santa's to a trip that starts at the loj."

(I believe the answer is because its possible)

JoeCedar · 06-18-2012, 05:25 PM

If challenging hikes are your interest, here is a list of combinations (total = 46 in 10 hiking days):

Range: 15-24 miles, 5000-8200 feet ascent

Nippletop, Dial, Colvin, Blake, Sawteeth
Phelps, Ttop, Marcy, Sky, Gray, Colden
Hay, Bas, Sadlbk, Gothics, Arm, UWJ, LWJ
Algonquin, Wright, Iroquois, Marshall, Cliff, Redfield
Giant & Rocky Pk, Big Slide
Whiteface, Esther, Street, Nye
Seymour, Seward, Donaldson, Emmons
Allen, Cascade & Porter
Macomb, Sdix, Edix, Hough, Dix
Santanoni, Panther, Couchie

06-17-2012, 11:04 AM	#1
lionelhutz Consultant Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Burlington Posts: 306	Good Idea/ Bad Idea Long story short: Day hike of the Santanoni range from Flowed Lands (or campsite at intersection of Calamity brook trail and indian pass crossover): good idea or bad idea? __________________ My Polyester Shirt Smells like Italian Hoagies

06-17-2012, 11:13 AM	#2
Commissionpoint Alpine Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Diamond Point, NY Posts: 1,282	Not impossible but a VERY long day. The Calamity/IP campsite is now on the other side of the brook due to the re-route. Duck Hole or Bradley Pond would be better camping choices for your proposed route I would tend to think. __________________ -Wolf Say you don't know me or recognize my face Say you don't care who goes to that kind of place Knee deep in the hoopla sinking in your fight Too many runaways eating up the night

06-17-2012, 01:23 PM	#4
Commissionpoint Alpine Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Diamond Point, NY Posts: 1,282	Yeh I didn't get into the bit about that nasty mile or so from Bradley Pond heading north to Duck Hole. Truly its really a horrible mess through that bit, but as already has been mentioned, Duck Hole is likely to be very quiet so it may be worth the added effort to camp there if solitude is high on the priority list. Bradley Pond is a nice lean-to, but it does see a lot of use so you are less likely to have it to yourself compared to Duck Hole. __________________ -Wolf Say you don't know me or recognize my face Say you don't care who goes to that kind of place Knee deep in the hoopla sinking in your fight Too many runaways eating up the night

06-18-2012, 01:08 PM	#10
lionelhutz Consultant Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Burlington Posts: 306	Yea...it's not a pace thing. I can do the distance. It's really more a quesiton of "Man...why the hell would you want to add the Santa's to a trip that starts at the loj." (I believe the answer is because its possible) __________________ My Polyester Shirt Smells like Italian Hoagies

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06-17-2012, 11:25 AM	#3
DSettahr ɹǝpuɐɯɯoɔ Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,787	You'd have to be in really, really, extremely good shape for this to be possible, especially from Flowed Lands. Forget going past Duck Hole. The Preston Pond trail starts out flat and easy, but it becomes pretty rugged in the last 2 miles from Hunter Pond to Duck Hole. You'd also have to cross the Cold River without a bridge, which could be easy or hard depending on how much it's rained. And the Duck Hole to Bradley Pond trail starts out really nice and flat for the first four miles south of Duck Hole... but then it turns into a mess for the last mile of climbing to the pond. That stretch of trail is one of the worst stretches of trail I've ever hiked. It's very, very eroded, and there are old logging road bridges that are rotten and slippery and filled with rusty nails sticking out. It'd be much faster to just hike/drive down the road to the Santanoni Trailhead and go in that way. But yeah, like Commissionpoint says... probably better to just camp at Bradley Pond. Duck Hole would work too (and you'd probably see fewer people there), but then you'd still have to deal with that nasty stretch of trail.

06-18-2012, 10:30 AM	#5
JoeCedar Commander Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Keene, NY Posts: 1,964	A simple way to estimate a hiking day like this is to add up the mileage, divide by 2 mph to get the approx. hours total time that the hike would take. Then you decide whether you can go that long or not. Consider that most people slow down after about 10 hours (or even sooner). For herdpaths, very rough trails, or lots of vertical ascent, you might even use a number smaller than 2 mph. If you are a slow hiker or like to stop a lot (or in winter), then maybe use 1.5 or 1.6 mph.

06-18-2012, 05:25 PM	#11
JoeCedar Commander Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Keene, NY Posts: 1,964	If challenging hikes are your interest, here is a list of combinations (total = 46 in 10 hiking days): Range: 15-24 miles, 5000-8200 feet ascent Nippletop, Dial, Colvin, Blake, Sawteeth Phelps, Ttop, Marcy, Sky, Gray, Colden Hay, Bas, Sadlbk, Gothics, Arm, UWJ, LWJ Algonquin, Wright, Iroquois, Marshall, Cliff, Redfield Giant & Rocky Pk, Big Slide Whiteface, Esther, Street, Nye Seymour, Seward, Donaldson, Emmons Allen, Cascade & Porter Macomb, Sdix, Edix, Hough, Dix Santanoni, Panther, Couchie

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