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  • #31
    Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
    Interestingly, a long time ago, I led a friendly group over these same mountains in reverse. We all stayed together, but at the end of the day, one of the stronger members flopped over on the snow on his back in total exhaustion.

    I do feel badly, that even though I broke trail the whole day, that some of the members of the group were abused on this hike. This mentality could influence winter hikes, that the trail breakers are doing the work, so how could the people at the back be having a hard time?
    CatskillKev, you still have not learned a lesson from this hike.
    "one of the stronger members flopped over on the snow on his back in total exhaustion" because he tried to be a team player and keep up with your pace. He was ashamed to fall back and move slower.

    Both of you would have been better had he split from your main team and just followed already broken trail.


    Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
    Survival of the Fittest in this case.
    ...
    But yes, they could be having a hard time if they are not in hiking shape.
    Yes, your "group hike" mentality would lead to selection of people with equal PWC on your hikes and exclusion of people with less capabilities (who were not fortunate enough to inherit a better set of genes).

    I believe that Traill Boss' attitude is more rational e.g. when he is not trying to keep up with Waynald or Little Brown Mushroom and is willing to fall back and hike slower.
    Last edited by Yury; 02-08-2017, 10:11 AM.

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    • #32
      Yes, Yury, you did figure that out quite well. That guy did feel pressure to help just behind me, partly because one of the female members shamed him into it. I think I overestimated the strength of not only him, but the strength of a couple of the females, too. No one could handle being second for very long. It was just too ambitious an undertaking for that particular group in those conditions. I mistakenly thought that the tough trail breaking conditions would equalize abilities and make everyone happy on the hike. I have not abused anyone since, so I think I learned something. Of course I should mention that I was the only one with adequate floatation. All others were using snow-squooshers. I'm at fault for wanting 3 peaks that day. We really should have just done Eagle and turned around, but I was in peak-bagging mode, and may not have been the only one. I think that the mix of male and female on the hike could have been a problem, too. Females can shame males into doing more than they are capable of. Is that a sexist thing to say? I don't think so. Women can kill you. :-) That's just an extra delving into the psyche of male/female hiker relations.

      By the way, when I said Survival of the Fittest, I meant the 17 member group.
      I might be kidding...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
        That guy did feel pressure to help just behind me, partly because one of the female members shamed him into it.
        I think I overestimated the strength of not only him, but the strength of a couple of the females, too.
        It's not about strength or stamina.
        You overestimated maturity of this guy and overall maturity of your team.


        Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
        I think that the mix of male and female on the hike could have been a problem, too. Females can shame males into doing more than they are capable of.
        Yes, a mix of immature males and immature females can be dangerous in a lot of places.


        Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
        I'm at fault for wanting 3 peaks that day.
        Wanting 3 peaks is OK.
        Often I have an unrealistic goal for my hike. In this case I just bail out earlier or finish later.

        By the way, have all members of your team brought at least two sources of light?

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        • #34
          There was no need of a rescue, so it was not an unsuccessful hike. I feel bad about it, that's all. Traverses are tricky, and really should not involve inexperienced people. I'm glad we got to the bottom of that one!

          I did not have 2 sources of light, so I would say that not all members had 2 sources of light. It was not a dark night, anyway.
          I might be kidding...

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          • #35
            I don't carry two light sources unless I'm on a planned night hike and occasionally I need to sit/lay down for a minute before I can do anything else when I'm done hiking. Its got nothing to do with being immature or out of shape; I just push myself hard sometimes. In this case, as bad as Kev might feel about how hard his group went, anyone who was out of their comfort zone should have spoken up and said something assertive about what they were experiencing. I've personally led small groups of hikers in the HP's before, and when we were done members of the group expressed that the hike had been more than they were ready for. Its hard not to feel bad, but at the same time most of my disappointment was felt towards the person who should have spoken up and didn't. I congratulated them on doing a good job and made sure they weren't feeling ill or injured, and then once we were laughing and telling stories over beers I explained the importance of vocalizing concerns, this way they didn't feel like they're being lectured or talked down to.
            My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Yury View Post
              ... I believe that Traill Boss' attitude is more rational e.g. when he is not trying to keep up with Waynald or Little Brown Mushroom and is willing to fall back and hike slower.
              I'm in no shape to keep up with W & LBM (or complete the distances they do) so I refrain from joining their adventures (assuming they would even agree to let me).

              When I *was* in better condition, LBM, Boghollow and I hiked Sewards and Seymour. LBM is very "fleet of foot" and by the time we finished all 4 peaks I shaved off 1.5 hours from my previous best ... and we all had a great time!
              http://lookingforviews.blogspot.ca/2...014-06-01.html

              The only other time I've hiked with them is when they caught up to our group of three and we all continued to Marcy. After Marcy they left for the Great Range, one of our team returned to the Loj (as was agreed prior to departure), and two us continued to Skylight and Gray. Everyone involved was self-sufficient so adding/subtracting people was a non-issue.
              http://lookingforviews.blogspot.ca/2...014-12-14.html
              Looking for Views!

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