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Sawteeth vs Sawteeth SouthEast vs Marble Point

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  • Sawteeth vs Sawteeth SouthEast vs Marble Point

    Planning a winter trip to hit Pyramid and Sawteeth, coming from the Orebed path. How does the Sawteeth Southeast lookout, and Marble Point lookout compare to just stopping at the main Sawteeth peak (before returning to Peggy'O)?

    I don't get too many shots at the peaks, so want to hit what needs to be hit, but want to balance extra effort vs payoff and communicate pros/cons to the group.

  • #2
    Where is Sawteeth Southeast lookout? Do you mean Outlook #5?

    ​The views from Outlook #5 and Marble Point are similar. You see more of the lake from Marble Point.


    "... want to balance extra effort vs payoff ..."
    ​That balance is heavily tipped to the "effort" side seeing that you're starting from Camp Peggy O'Brien.

    To get from Peggy O to Outlook #5 you climb 3100 feet and lose 1500 feet (a bit more if you continue to Marble Point). Then you have to re-climb the 1500 feet to return to Peggy O.

    Nine miles and 4600 feet elly gain. The view isn't that good.


    Looking for Views!

    Comment


  • #3
    FYI, Outlook #3 is slightly misplaced in OSM. I marked the correct location on this map
    sendtomaz

    ​Thanks!

    ​Strange. I must've been tired (or cross-eyed) when I was adding the outlooks! My own data shows Outlook #3 is where you indicated. In this snippet from Google Earth, 6335 is the signpost for Outlook #3 and 6336 is the actual outlook.

    I made the correction in OSM. http://www.openstreetmap.org/changes...0946/-73.83531

    Looking for Views!

    Comment


    • sendtomaz
      sendtomaz commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks again for your OSM work on the High Peaks trails.

  • #4
    There isn't a view from the Sawteeth Southeast peak, and there's a valley between it and Sawteeth which necessitates a 130 feet climb. The view from Outlook #5 is completely different from Sawteeth as you're looking at Ausable Lake and the Colvin Range as opposed to the Great Range. But then you have a 230 foot climb back to Sawteeth.

    View of the Great Range from Sawteeth summit is stunning. IMO Outlook #5 is not as impressive as the other 4 outlooks ascending the Scenic Trail. Outlooks #2 and #3 are particularly exhilarating as you feel like you're "on top of the world" perched high above the lake. So whether Outlook #5 is "worth it" from Sawteeth summit is a personal decision. Most people ascending Sawteeth from the north don't make the trek.

    We had a Sawteeth/Pyramid/Gothics/Armstrong hike planned. But when we settled on the Scenic Trail we decided including the other peaks would be too much for us at this point. So we did Sawteeth solo which leaves a Pyramid/Gothics/Armstrong/Upper Wolfjaw hike sometime in our future. We're planning on a lean-to at JBL as a base.

    If you'd like to do Sawteeth via the Scenic Trail someday (which I highly recommend) you could add Gothics/Armstrong to your Pyramid hike instead of Sawteeth.

    Comment


    • #5
      Thanks guys. Seems like I can skip the extra. Fwiw, this pic is from OSMand on my phone, it shows Sawteeth southeast as a false summit WNW of outlook 5 and SE of rifle notch (which seems like 1/3 mi SE of Sawteeth proper

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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      • #6
        Yeah that's OpenStreetMap in OSMand. Pretty much everything you see in that screenshot has my fingerprints on it ... except for the location of the summits. Sawteeth-Southeast Peak was added by another map editor over a year ago in this Changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40700875

        ​Like sendtomaz said, there's no view from Sawteeth-Southeast; it's wooded.

        ​I have a quibble with the location of Sawteeth's summit in OSM. I had added "Sawteeth Lookout" because that's where you get the view of the Great Range and where most people consider to be the summit. OSM shows the summit to be north of the lookout.

        ​USGS Topo shows two bumps on Sawteeth. The lookout, and de facto summit, is the southern bump. USGS Topo displays the word "Sawteeth" just a touch closer to the northern bump. I don't believe that's meaningful but whoever marked Sawteeth's summit in OSM may have thought so and put it on the northern bump.

        https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.1...m&n=0.43&a=mba

        ​The new USGS National Map doesn't shed any light because it splits the difference and puts the word "Sawteeth" between the two bumps.
        https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/advan...02100&level=16


        Looking for Views!

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        • #7
          Interesting.

          FWIW, RideWithGps has the southern bump at 4,113 feet and the northern bump at 4,143 feet. Not sure the actual numbers are accurate. But the point is that RideWithGps has the northern bump 30 feet higher which would make it the summit.

          As a point of interest Mountaineer's patch has the summit at 4,110 feet. (https://store.mountaineer.com/product_p/7saw.htm)

          We took our posterity photos at the southern bump which is the viewpoint and de facto summit. We're OK because we ascended Scenic but then descended Weld so we traversed the northern bump (assuming it's on trail).

          But perhaps people that ascended and descended via Scenic or South Sawteeth have some hiking to do ...

          Comment


          • #8
            Digital Elevation Model (DEM). Whatever RideWithGPS is using versus Google's DEM, SRTM, etc.

            ​My route mapped in Runalyze and modeled using both Google and SRTM DEM. Southern bump reported to be higher than northern bump.(BTW, same elevation of 4066 ft reported at 6.54 mi in SRTM.)



            Does that make the southern bump definitely higher? Hmm. Considering what I've learned while using DEMs, I would only say probably higher.
            Looking for Views!

            Comment


            • #9
              Thanks.

              I would assume that if the viewpoint / southern bump was not the actual summit it would have occurred to someone over the last 100 years or so. But sometimes tradition can entrench itself ...

              Seems like a coincidence that the actual summit matches the best view point but it's possible the view was "facilitated" at some point in history.

              Comment


              • #10
                Trail boss, you still recommend OSM and Caltopo? I've been using them very happily for 18 months based on your references online.

                Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • Trail Boss
                  Trail Boss commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, Caltopo.com is an excellent mapping tool. OSM is still the most detailed (digital) map for the High Peaks region.

                  hiking.waymarkedtrails.org is derived from OSM and useful for exploring trails (distance, elevation profile, marker color, etc).



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