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  • Corey's road

    Does anyone know if the gate is open to access summer parking lot for the Sewards?

  • #2
    Yes, it is open. Neil and I did the Sewards/Seymour on Wednesday. On the way out we saw a small FWD sedan stuck in a ditch on a hill and then saw a tow truck driving in. If you don't want to have a similar result, you should have a car or truck with AWD or 4WD and snow tires. The most difficult hill is on the way out.

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    • #3
      Yes, thank you...I have a jeep renegade. What do you think....safe or not safe to hike Sat out there with wind chill? I'm itching to get out there, but....

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Shellio46 View Post
        Yes, thank you...I have a jeep renegade. What do you think....safe or not safe to hike Sat out there with wind chill? I'm itching to get out there, but....
        Well the hike is almost exclusively under cover, so the wind chill is less relevant. The ambient air is going to be COLD.

        Here is the forecast for the summit of Seward, forecast for about -20F all day: https://www.mountain-forecast.com/pe...forecasts/1325
        ADK 46/46W + MacNaughton, Grid 238/552
        Photos & Stuff

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Shellio46 View Post
          Yes, thank you...I have a jeep renegade. What do you think....safe or not safe to hike Sat out there with wind chill? I'm itching to get out there, but....
          Except on summits or exposed areas (a few minutes of the day) and maybe on the road to the Calkins junction, wind chill is a myth. Most of the D-E-S trail is well protected in the trees. You do, of course, have to be prepared to deal with being exposed to below zero F temperature all day. If you have doubts, wait for a better day.

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          • #6
            Coming out from the trail-head Joe and I saw a car that had gone off the road while descending the big hill. There was a sad-looking line of footprints heading out from the vehicle. Then about 10 minutes later we passed a tow truck that was heading in. Four-wheel drive and snow tires are a must.

            Re; wind chill hype: when you wear a wind-breaker there is no wind chill. A neoprene face-mask costs about 15 bucks. Absolute temperature is by far and away the most important piece of data.
            Project-100: 100 peaks, one winter. https://project100singlewinter.wordpress.com/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Neil View Post
              ... a car had gone off the road while descending the big hill.
              Four-wheel drive and snow tires are a must.
              I do not believe that four-wheel drive provides any benefit while descending a hill.
              You may be stuck when trying to ascend a hill, but you should not get into a ditch because of having two-wheel drive and not having winter tires if you drive according to conditions.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Yury View Post
                I do not believe that four-wheel drive provides any benefit while descending a hill.
                You may be stuck when trying to ascend a hill, but you should not get into a ditch because of having two-wheel drive and not having winter tires if you drive according to conditions.
                Actually this really isn't correct on both counts.




                First, lets dispel the myth of 2wd vs. 4wd vs. AWD

                2wd is 99% of the time one wheel drive due to the fact that the vast majority of auto's come with an open differential. If it's a 2wd front drive car you definitely have an open differential and thus one wheel drive. If you have a rear wheel drive, you have small chance that it's actually two wheel drive.

                If you have 4wd, you have 1 wheel drive in the rear and 1 in the front. Thus 2wd. If you are very lucky to have a clutch or lockup type rear then you have 3 wheel drive. Assuming your car will actually lock into 4wd. With the advent of 4wd auto and auto lock hubs you never really know.

                AWD is just that, all wheel drive. Not all are equal. Audi/vw/lambo and Subaru really have the edge on this market.




                Next, let's talk about deceleration.

                4 wheel drive/AWD most certainly helps you braking on slippery conditions and downhill. You have engine braking on 2, 3, or 4 wheels vs. 1.

                You also have engine power going to both axles so it is les prone to locking the wheels up under braking conditions. Drive something without anti lock brakes and this is much more pronounced.





                Last, hitting the ditch going uphill.

                When a car loses traction under acceleration it will slide in one of 2 directions, however they are both typically the same direction. It will slide to the right due the pitch of the road and due the fact that the right tire spins first. The other reason is the torque and rotation of the engine and how it spins the differential. Even on a flat surface, a car will slide right if you spin the tires (as seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJz1XR91dE0) It will slide in the direction of momentum, i.e. turning.

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                • FoulHooked
                  FoulHooked commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, 4/AWD should help on descents. But...

                  Isn't 2wd operating with (more or less) equal power to both wheels 99%+ of the time? Granted that goes out the window if a wheel slips, but that's not what you said. (same for your 4wd actually being 2wd). also arent there some fwd cars that come with limited slip differentials? prob not a lot but "If it's a 2wd front drive car you definitely have an open differential" seems possibly mistaken.

                  secondly, brakes are made for braking. modern brakes are great for slowing and stopping in slick conditions. engine braking in AWD/4WD can be very effective, but be wary of downshifting in front wheel drive in slippery conditions.

              • #9
                No, an open diff pretty much drives one wheel all the time. As soon as any resistance is given to one wheel over the other it only drives one. You can literally take a vehicle up on a lift and at idle prevent one wheel from turning with your hands if it has an open diff. If you are curious to know if it has an open diff there are 2 tests. One is with the tires off the ground, by hand turn on tire forward, the other will turn backwards if it's an open diff. If it's actually 2wd it will also spin forward. Or you can spin the tires and see if it spins both. If you have a limited slip, you'd better be real careful getting used to it in slippery conditions while turning.

                ABS systems are definitely better for braking in slippery or lockup type conditions. There is no disputing this. Engine braking has it's place and is certainly useful though. YOu have a great point about excessive downshifting in slippery conditions. Too much engine braking will lock up the tires.

                There may be some high performance vehicles out there factory optioned out with limited slip front wheel drive. I had a BMW M series factory rally car that didn't even come with it. I've yet to have found to date anything with a factory limited slip front diff. One of the reasons why is that the already problematic issues of front wheel drive cars (push steer and torque steer) become exacerbated when you add a limited diff. A couple more reasons are decreased gas mileage and faster tire wear, especially on city driven vehicles. Limited diffs are found much more in drag racing fwd applications. I put one in my BMW and it was downright dangerous in the snow.

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                • #10
                  Does the right tire spin first because the gears are turning counter clockwise in the differential when looked at from the back? Or should I say the drive shaft?...

                  Not sure if the right tire spinning first is any reason for the vehicle to slide right. Does that in itself cause an internal left to right momentum?
                  I might be kidding...

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by CatskillKev View Post
                    Does the right tire spin first because the gears are turning counter clockwise in the differential when looked at from the back? Or should I say the drive shaft?...

                    Not sure if the right tire spinning first is any reason for the vehicle to slide right. Does that in itself cause an internal left to right momentum?

                    Which ever tire is easier to spin will spin. I.e. one tire on snow, the other one on dry pavement, you're spinning. The reason the right tire spins is because while in drive, the axle tries to rotate counter clockwise around the axis of the driveshaft in the chassis due the directional torque of the engine and driveshaft, thus lifting the pressure off the right rear tire and allowing it to spin easier than the left. In reverse, it will try to spin the left rear in most cases.

                    Trivia super bonus question..... Which tire spins in the front of the vehicle, while driving forward in a 4x4 vehicle?

                    Super duper common core bonus question..... why?


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                    • Fat Man Hiking
                      Fat Man Hiking commented
                      Editing a comment
                      TSBQ - Whichever one doesn't have traction? Or possibly the left?

                      SDCCBQ - ummmmmm........just guessing, probably for the same reason that the right rear wants to spin first when both tires have equal traction.

                  • #12
                    Its kind of surprising that all vehicles spin drive shafts counter clockwise in drive, but I guess that's what you're saying, and my father always told me that was the case with the American models. That still doesn't explain why the vehicle wants to slide right while spinning the right wheel.
                    I might be kidding...

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                    • #13
                      Fat Man Hiking The bonus question answers. The left one spins up front because the axle is mounted backwards in the front of the vehicle and thus spins backwards

                      The origin of the vehicle doesn't change the direction of the driveshaft. If it's rear wheel drive there isn't much choice. The driveshaft spins the pinion gears, which spins (and tries to climb) the ring gear which spins the differential and the axles.

                      The vehicle slides right because of the pitch in the road. It also slides right because it's losing traction on the right hand side and still pushing a tiny bit with the left. Last the torque of the engine turning the driveshaft plays a part as well. The engine rotates and torques to the right, hence why it lifts the right rear tire. In racing we will actually preload the right rear suspension to counteract this effect.

                      Looks at what the chassis is doing in the picture I posted. It depicts this action pretty well. Note the torque on the front, the twist in the rear and note how high off the ground the car is. The height is due to the pinion trying to climb the ring rear. That car actualy sits pretty low to the ground when not being launched like that.

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                      • Fat Man Hiking
                        Fat Man Hiking commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I see on your profile that you have "racing" as another interest so I have to ask......is that your car in the pic?

                    • #14
                      Fat Man Hiking It's one of mine, yes. I mostly street drive it but a few times a year I race it at Lebanon Valley Dragway. I also own 2 circle track dirt cars that I race on a vintage circuit. Here is a picture of me with it on one of the days I managed to put it in the winners circle.

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                      • Fat Man Hiking
                        Fat Man Hiking commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Very nice!! My business was founded on chassis building but has since transitioned to production cnc work. I ran dragbikes for a lot of years and was motorcycle track champion at NYIRP in '99. My current ride is a turbo-Hayabusa powered front engine dragster on methanol. I'll have to see if I can dig up a pic to post. Nice running across a fellow drag racer!
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