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Ladders, Stairs, and Ropes, Oh My!

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  • #16
    I believe the shorter staircase pictured actually rises up the north side of Colden proper from the col. It is on the same slope as the longer one pictured. The ladder, if it exists other than in my head, is on the opposing slope b/w the col and Colden north.

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    • #17
      Thanks! I looked at that long staircase too quickly and assumed it was the one on Colden's southern side. The "cantilevered rock" you mentioned should've given me the clue it's the staircase on the northern side. OK, so those two are on the north side plus a ladder.


      So that leaves two staircases on the south side plus two ladders near the cleaved rock.
      Looking for Views!

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      • #18
        Frivolous & only slightly on topic, but my sister just shared with me a photo of my mother with me as a very small toddler -- proving that I started on ladders at a very early age.
        (My mother always said I was impossible to keep in cribs since I kept climbing out of them.)

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        • #19
          Nice work, Taras. The steps on the trail to lake Tear are on the Feldspar trail (west approach from the Opalescent). Big Slide seems more like steps than a ladder to me...what's left of it. Also, I have a photo of myself on one of the Beaver Meadow Falls ladders, that has 8 rungs and is nearly 10 feet tall. It's one of those that you have to climb up on the way down. I no longer know how to post photos here, so you'll have to trust me. :-)
          Nature we have always with us, an inexhaustible storehouse of that which moves the heart, appeals to the mind, and fires the imagination - health to the body, a stimulus to the intellect, and a joy to the soul. - John Burroughs

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          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks!

            You wouldn't happen to know at what elevation along the Feldspar?

            I agree some of the older infrastructure was more stair-like than ladder-like. However, the way I see it, the new stairs on Colden and the Orebed Trail set the bar higher for what now qualifies as stairs.

            You can walk up/down the new ones like a staircase at home. However, the old ones, like the disintegrating one on Big Slide, require a lot more balance and finesse to ascend/descend like stairs. I've seen a lot of hikers who negotiate it like a ladder.

            The other aspect is a matter of usability. Stairs are depicted like railway ties along the trail. In other words, a few feet of trail are shown using a different line-pattern. Unless you zoom the map to maximum magnification, you're unlikely to even notice the staircase.

            Here's what the staircase along Orebed Brook Trail looks like in OSM:
            http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=4....8676&layers=N

            It is visible at medium zoom levels because it's a very long staircase!

            Anyone know how many steps it has? I can add it to the map.
            Last edited by Trail Boss; 10-26-2017, 09:26 AM.

        • #20
          As an experiment, I added the short staircase (< 10') located near Cascade's summit. As expected, it's too short to be visible on the map unless you zoom in to the maximum level (19) and even then it just looks like a smudge on the trail.
          http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=4...86018&layers=N

          In comparison, the longer staircase on the Mount Colden Trail is visible at a modest magnification level of 15.
          http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15....9677&layers=N

          Unfortunately, ladders and ropes aren't displayed on the standard version of OpenStreetMap, only on specialized versions fine-tuned for hiking.
          Looking for Views!

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          • FoulHooked
            FoulHooked commented
            Editing a comment
            "In comparison, the longer staircase on the Mount Colden Trail is visible at a modest magnification level of 15."

            ...and then appears to disappear again when fully zoomed in?

          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            That's because of the way OpenStreetMap goes about displaying additions and modifications. A change takes time to "percolate" through each zoom level. It's usually finished after a few days ... and then takes even more time to be picked up by other maps that are based on OSM (like OpenCycleMap, OpenTopoMap, etc).

            There's also the usual constraint where some details simply aren't shown at all zoom levels. For example, foot-bridges disappear at around zoom level 13 or 14.

        • #21
          When I took the Scenic over Sawteeth, onto Gothics and down the Beaver Meadow trail, I remember climbing several ladders. Was it only three?

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          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm currently focusing on ladders with more than 3-4 rungs, so only the ones that are 6+ feet long.

            - Two on Scenic.

            - There are several ladders at the top of Beaver Meadow Trail but only one is reported to be more than 6 feet tall.

            - One near the junction of West River Trail and Beaver Meadow Trail.

            That's four ladders eligible for inclusion in OpenStreetMap. I know the location of three of them and needs the coordinates for the tall ladder at the upper end of the Beaver Meadow Trail.

          • DennisK
            DennisK commented
            Editing a comment
            Got it. Thanks Taras.

        • #22
          If anyone has geotagged photos of ladders and staircases (see red items in the first post), I can use them to identify their location. If you're using your phone's camera and GPS is activated, chances are your pics are geotagged. If you're willing to share them with me, please contact me via PM. Thanks!
          Looking for Views!

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          • Makwa
            Makwa commented
            Editing a comment
            TB... have you thought of contacting DSettahr? As I recall he is/was involved in cataloguing/ inventorying trail improvements. He might be able to point you to a resource with all of this info.

          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            Good idea! Thanks! PM sent.

        • #23
          I like these annotations. Maybe also add in 'plank bridges' or whatever they are called. An example would be what you find at Elk Pass trail through the ponds.

          Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            I typically only indicate bridges that span a waterway like a brook or river. I've skipped 'bog bridges' like the one along the trail to Iroquois and similar. It's not because they're insignificant but because I don't have their coordinates and they have a low priority in my list of things to show in OpenStreetMap.

            I haven't seen the new one in Elk Pass yet (but I know where it is). I may get a chance to see it this month if my knee improves a little faster.

        • #24
          Originally posted by Trail Boss View Post
          Shorey Shortcut (1?) [I]- Need location of the ladder (apprx. halfway between Phelps Trail and height of land)
          There is one ladder with ten rungs on the shortcut located at N 44 7.358' W 73 55.935' elevation 3754'.
          46/46 11/46W

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          • #25
            NickWI

            Thank you for the location of the ladder along the Shorey Shortcut Trail. However, are you certain the coordinates are OK? I plugged them into the map and they point to a spot northwest of Mount Marcy. https://goo.gl/maps/E24H2Np4r872

            Is the elevation OK? Because I can just use the intersection of the Shorey Shortcut Trail with a contour line at 3754' to mark the spot of the ladder.



            Looking for Views!

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            • NickWI
              NickWI commented
              Editing a comment
              When I convert the degrees/minutes to degrees, I get this: https://goo.gl/maps/5b2a2Hvo1m62

              There seems to be something off in the longitude in the Google link you posted. But yes, the elevation should be good. I last calibrated it I September.

              I did take a picture with my Garmin and can send it to you, if that's at all helpful.

          • #26
            I plugged the coordinates into Caltopo and they point to a spot at 3822' elevation (68 vertical feet higher than the altimeter's 3754').

            Click image for larger version

Name:	Shoreys Ladder.JPG
Views:	1
Size:	43.8 KB
ID:	482470

            For now I'll leave the ladder where I drew it in OSM, namely at ~3754' (1145 m) as opposed to 3822' (1165 m).

            Looking for Views!

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            • #27
              Since you've strayed outside the 46, how far afield would you like to go? Crane has a big whopper of a ladder.

              http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/46740480.jpg
              Tom Rankin - 5444W "In the depths of Summer, I finally learned that there lay within me an invincible Winter"

              Proud Member #0003 of ADKHP Foundation
              Volunteer Balsam Lake Mountain
              Past President Catskill 3500 Club
              CEO Views And Brews!

              Trail maintainer for the Dry Brook Ridge trail from Mill Brook Road to just past the Lean-to

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              • Trail Boss
                Trail Boss commented
                Editing a comment
                I just checked the way Crane Mountain's trails are coded in OSM. They need some work before fine details, like ladders, are added. However, I am unmotivated to become involved in mapping that area.

              • Makwa
                Makwa commented
                Editing a comment
                I have track logs for the entire trail system there if you should ever become motivated.

            • #28


              Originally posted by Trail Boss
              Unfortunately, ladders and ropes aren't displayed on the standard version of OpenStreetMap, only on specialized versions fine-tuned for hiking.
              What is the specialized hiking version of OSM? How does one get that?

              Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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              • #29
                Originally posted by mga56grg View Post
                What is the specialized hiking version of OSM? How does one get that?
                There are vector maps derived from OpenStreetMap. A vector map requires far less storage space than a raster map. For example, all of New York State fits into less than 300 Mb ("all" meaning all roads, trails, landmarks, points of interest, etc). In addition, vector maps can have themes. For example, a "Driving" theme will emphasize vehicle-oriented infrastructure and de-emphasize all else (like trails, shelters, streams, etc). Conversely, a "Hiking" theme would emphasize hiking-oriented infrastructure. A "Night" theme would show map details on a black background. A "Ski" theme would only show ski trails, etc.

                Themes let you control the map's appearance and content. You don't need to see trails and ladders for driving but you do for hiking. There are many themes available and people "roll their own" and share them.

                I know of two sources of vector maps derived from OpenStreetMap:

                OpenAndroMaps (works with several apps)
                LoMaps (works exclusively with Locus Map)


                Looking for Views!

                Comment


                • #30
                  Originally posted by Trail Boss

                  There are vector maps derived from OpenStreetMap. A vector map requires far less storage space than a raster map. For example, all of New York State fits into less than 300 Mb ("all" meaning all roads, trails, landmarks, points of interest, etc). In addition, vector maps can have themes. For example, a "Driving" theme will emphasize vehicle-oriented infrastructure and de-emphasize all else (like trails, shelters, streams, etc). Conversely, a "Hiking" theme would emphasize hiking-oriented infrastructure. A "Night" theme would show map details on a black background. A "Ski" theme would only show ski trails, etc.

                  Themes let you control the map's appearance and content. You don't need to see trails and ladders for driving but you do for hiking. There are many themes available and people "roll their own" and share them.

                  I know of two sources of vector maps derived from OpenStreetMap:

                  OpenAndroMaps (works with several apps)
                  LoMaps (works exclusively with Locus Map)

                  Interesting. The Locus map looks cleaner than the OSM map too.

                  Have you been able to, on OSM or Locus, change the altitude marks to feet rather than meters?


                  Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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