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  • What Peak Was This Taken From?

    I found this pic on my computer and my hiking partner and I are debating what peak it was taken from and what we're looking at. Unfortunately the data in the pic's properties is wrong. Its says it was taken on a day that I didn't hike anything.

    It seemed easy to guess for me, but they are telling me I'm wrong. Can anyone help me win this bet?

    My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

  • #2
    Mount Marcy.
    I might be kidding...

    Comment


    • FlyFishingandBeer
      FlyFishingandBeer commented
      Editing a comment
      That's what I said. Standing on Marcy with Haystack/Little Haystack in the foreground, with the GR stretching out to the left, and Colvin, Blake, then Nippletop, then Dix in the background. If this is accurate then what's screwing me up is not being able to correctly ID the peaks of the LGR out to the left beyond Gothics. I know their order but somehow can't distinguish each peak from this angle.

  • #3
    Down in the valley to the left of the range is Rooster Comb, and then I suppose Hedge Hog to the right of Rooster Comb. Some of the Great Range line up with each other.

    edit: I guess if you look close you can pick out Basin, Saddleback, Gothics, Armstrong, Upper Wolfjaw, Lower Wolfjaw, Hedge Hog, Rooster Comb. In other words all.
    I might be kidding...

    Comment


    • FlyFishingandBeer
      FlyFishingandBeer commented
      Editing a comment
      I knew I had to be looking at Haysack because its got the unique Little Haystack feature. Basin, Saddleback, and Gothics seemed easy enough, but from this angle I still can't distinguish the individual peaks for Armstrong and upper/lower. Now that you've pointed out Rooster Comb it seems obvious.

  • #4
    Taken from Skylight

    Comment


    • CatskillKev
      CatskillKev commented
      Editing a comment
      No, from Skylight, Little Haystack lines up with Gothics. From Marcy, you look over the left side of Haystack and see Dix.

    • Makwa
      Makwa commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree that it is Marcy. I have 2 pics taken near the cairn in the original pic by FF&B and everything lines up perfectly. Definitely Marcy.

  • #5
    Marcy.

    Here's a photo looking north from Marcy. The cairn behind Charles is the same cairn visible in your photo. It's the final northern cairn on Marcy's flat-ish portion. The wooded lump in the foreground is Little Marcy (also visible in your photo). Dead-center in the distance is Roostercomb (rocky cliff is visible). Other peaks of the Great Range are also visible (Armstrong, Gothics, Pyramid, Basin). Your photo also has the dead giveaway of the Haystacks in full profile.


    IMG_20160903_154654905

    And another from approximately the same spot.


    IMG_4024_stitch

    ​Here's the view from Skylight.


    IMG_4009_stitch
    Looking for Views!

    Comment


    • #6
      Thank you all. I was starting to think I must be taking crazy pills or something.

      Something interesting (to me) that I should point out is that even after standing on Marcy's summit multiple times, the day this was taken was the only time where I had visibility of more than 100 feet or so. I should have taken more pictures.
      My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the west.

      Comment


      • #7
        Give this a moment to load: https://caltopo.com/view#ll=44.1131,...=-7.29,-294.63

        ​I was able to identify most of the Great Range from your photo but the one that gave me pause was Upper Wolf Jaw. Lower is easy to recognize because of its "bulk" but Upper is tricky, especially since it looks shorter than Lower (from this angle). Armstrong is easy because of its band of ledges. Gothics and Pyramid are obvious. The one that escaped me was Saddleback ... despite being in plain sight, peeking over "Basin-Northwest"!
        Looking for Views!

        Comment


      • #8
        An important thing to keep in mind, when looking from a high spot, is that you are looking over the nearby peaks so that further mountains will appear higher than closer ones.

        I don't really see obvious ledges on Armstrong. Do you mean on the very peak of Armstrong, on the left?
        I might be kidding...

        Comment


        • #9
          Seen from Marcy, no, they won't appear as obvious ledges but as a band of exposed rock. Look at the photo with Charles. To the left of Gothics is Armstrong. Note that its summit appears to be "highlighted" with a curved band of exposed rock.

          ​This is a band of small cliffs and ledges adorning Armstrong's summit. You can see them clearly from Gothics.


          Armstrong viewed from Gothics.
          Looking for Views!

          Comment


          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes, that is what I thought you were referring to, and yes the picture with Charles when magnifying, shows it better.

        • #10
          That peak between Armstrong and Gothics is interesting. It seems to be the same height almost as Armstrong, and the cols to each side seem to be about the same. This makes me think that the peak only belongs to Armstrong because its a little closer to Armstrong... But, I'm guessing.
          I might be kidding...

          Comment


          • FlyFishingandBeer
            FlyFishingandBeer commented
            Editing a comment
            That's what was screwing me up. I couldn't figure out what I was looking at so I couldn't locate Upper/Lower, even knowing the general location of Armstrong's flat summit ridge.

          • HH1
            HH1 commented
            Editing a comment
            You're right, think it is the south peak of Armstrong.

          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            FlyfishingandBeer, do you see Upper and Lower Wolfjaw now? The flat ridge that extends from Gothics is Armstrong. The next one is Upper Wolfjaw and then the one that almost hits the horizon is Lower Wolfjaw. You cannot see the south peak of Armstrong in your picture.

        • #11
          ​In FlyFishingandBeer 's photo, the so-called "peak" visible between Armstrong and Gothics is ... part of Gothics. It's the northern end of Gothics and stands about 4500' tall. That's 200' taller than the col (between Gothics and Armstrong) and about 125' taller than either of Armstrong's two humps.

          ​The viewing angle from Marcy places Gothics' northern end directly in line with Armstrong's southern hump. Therefore, it (partially) obscures Armstrong's shorter southern hump.

          In the snowy photo I posted above, the white knob on the extreme left is Gothics' northern end. Note how the land drops towards Armstrong's southern hump. Also note that both humps are virtually the same height.

          https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.1...113&z=16&b=mbt

          ​Here's the view north from Basin showing Gothics' northern end.


          Looking north from Basin.

          ​If you have photos of the Great Range viewed from Big Slide, the True North Slide starts at Gothics' northern end.
          Last edited by Trail Boss; 03-02-2017, 02:43 PM. Reason: Added photo.
          Looking for Views!

          Comment


          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            I wasn't referring to Gothics' northern end. I was talking about south Armstrong, which I realize was not in the original picture. HH1 commented that I was correct that I was talking about the south peak of Armstrong.

          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            Which photo were you referring to when you said "That peak between Armstrong and Gothics is interesting."?

            If it's the snowy photo I posted, then I agree with HH1; it's the southern end of Armstrong.

            In other words, the two "peaks" are all part of Armstrong mountain. There's insufficient separation and prominence to classify the southern end as a unique peak.

        • #12
          I was referring to your snowy picture TrailBoss. Yes we all agree. Now I have a separate question.

          Has Armstrong ever been questioned in regards to it being a separate peak? It seems to be less than 200 feet ascent. In the Catskills, that peak (I believe) would just be considered part of Gothics, and I mean both peaks of Armstrong would just be considered part of Gothics. So is there actually a mountain in the 46 that is not even an actual separate mountain?
          I might be kidding...

          Comment


          • greatexpectations
            greatexpectations commented
            Editing a comment
            i've seen lots of discussion of this. it all boils down to what rules you are using for the list. the original 46 rules are a bit different than those used elsewhere, and even then, more recent maps suggest they might have mixed up a few peaks in their list. for the 46, peaks had to be a certain col depth OR a certain distance away. armstrong (and a handful of others) were considered because of the distance factor.

            you might find this old discussion about yard interesting:
            http://www.vftt.org/forums/archive/i...p/t-33487.html

          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            So, looks like the Adirondacks use some sort of 160 foot rule or 50 meter rule, instead of the Catskill 200 foot rule.

            Yes, it looks like Gray is even less of an ascent. Not even 50 meters.

            Very strange indeed, hikers climbing 4000's that aren't 4000's and mountains that aren't mountains, with milk crates and bread knives. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. :-)

          • FlyFishingandBeer
            FlyFishingandBeer commented
            Editing a comment
            There's MANY peaks in the ADKS that are not separate mountains. Not trying be be a smart*ss but that how ranges work in general, right? Street/Nye, Marcy/Gray, and Armstrong/Gothics are the ones that seem most questionable to me. Still there's Algonquin, Boundary, and Iroquois peaks, but they are all on one mountain, per se'. The Same could probably be said about Nippletop and Dial. I haven't hiked those two in a while but I can't recall doing much ascending after departing from Nippletop towards Dial.

            I know a lot of this is semantics, but when I used to hike in Alaska it seemed as though people were more clear about distinguishing peaks from mountains rather than mushing their definitions together the way we do here. Not saying that either is wrong or right, but if that's what you're referring to then I've always wondered the same thing about ADK distinctions.

        • #13
          FWIW, the 46er list is based on tradition. That's to say, it's based on an original set of four-thousand footers as they were understood to be at the time they were climbed by the original 46ers. Seeing that several are now known to even fail the height requirement, subtler concepts like separation and prominence become moot.

          ​When determining what to identify as a unique mountain summit, separation and prominence certainly come into play. The list of Hundred Highest would definitely change if prominence were altered. Whoever devised the 770 list was definitely interested in a peak's prominence.

          ​There's a nameless 4360' tall mountain lying between Gray and Redfield. You can't miss this thing when looking at it from Cliff. It has more prominence than Gray; it stands about 140' taller than nearby Lake Tear. How Gray got on the list but this one didn't is a mystery to me.
          http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.10...&z=15&b=om&a=c


          ​The pointy thing between Marcy and Skylight is a nameless peak. It's discernable ... unlike Gray.
          Looking for Views!

          Comment


          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            You mean the peak off of Skylight? That's only 30 meters ascent, so less than Gray's 40.

          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            In the photo above, we see Marcy, Skylight and Redfield. The nameless peak is the first pointy thing to the right of, and below, Marcy.

            Using USGS 7.5' Topo, I count at least one more contour line (measuring from Lake Tear) than for Gray (measuring from the Marcy/Gray col) ... but I did get the "140" feet part wrong. It's less.

            http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.10...&z=15&b=om&a=c

          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            Gray is 120, which you agree with. Your Skylight peak is only 80. You need to follow the ridge off of Skylight. You are getting confused and counting extra lines because you're coming from the valley of Tear of the Clouds.

            Your peak and Tear of the Clouds are both 4360. I guess I shouldn't say that Tear of the Clouds is in the valley, but they are opposing peaks of the same height, except that the climb of Tear of the Clouds from Skylight would only be 40.
            Last edited by CatskillKev; 03-03-2017, 03:16 PM.

        • #14
          CatskillKev

          ​According to SRTM measurements, it's less than any of our numbers!

          Gray: 1463 m
          Lowest point along Marcy's shoulder to Gray: 1433 m
          ​Gray's prominence is 30 meters = ~100 feet.

          ​Nameless Peak: 1323 m
          ​Lowest point along peninsula of land to nameless peak: 1310 m
          Nameless peak's prominence is 13 meters = ~43 feet.

          ​A mere pittance and insufficient to identify it as a unique peak. Oh well; too bad.


          Looking for Views!

          Comment


          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm saying that your red arrow is pointing to the wrong peak. I believe your red arrow is pointing to the next peak to the west that has 2 bumps on it. If you looked at caltopo, you wouldn't even see 2 bumps on the east mountain. So, in this case, it might be less confusing to look at caltopo.

          • Trail Boss
            Trail Boss commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm saying you've been looking at the wrong peak all along.

          • CatskillKev
            CatskillKev commented
            Editing a comment
            No, I'm looking at the one you marked as B on acme. So I'm looking at the right peak.

            Your arrow may be to the correct one, but acme says the peak is 1330 plus. Its confusing because there is that lower peak to the west. No big deal.
            Last edited by CatskillKev; 03-03-2017, 06:17 PM.

        • #15
          FYI: Computer simulation confirms what I've been saying all along. All of the following are the same peak:
          1. The "pointy peak" I described in the wintry photo of Marcy, Skylight, and Redfield.
          2. The peak I marked "B" in the Acme Mapper link.
          3. The peak I labeled "Nameless Peak" in the wintry photo of Randomscooter ascending Marcy.

          Looking for Views!

          Comment

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