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  • Your collaboration is requested.

    ADKHP forum prides itself on running a lightly moderated forum. We owe any success we've had in that regard to the obviously high quality of our membership.

    Due to this success and the increasing popularity of the forum we have recently seen a large influx of new members. Many of these new members are beginner hikers and new to the concept of forums and forum etiquette. This has been associated with the posting of some repetitious and elementary information requests. Subsequent to these requests we've seen some cutting and cynical responses and other threads and posts that suggest that the patience of the more experienced members is being tried.

    So far, we have adjusted the forum's structure and next, we will be addressing these issues in a preventive and educational manner head-on with new members as they sign up.

    As we grapple with these challenges, we request your collaboration in keeping this forum lightly moderated.

    Thanks!
    1111111111

  • #2
    Originally posted by Neil View Post
    Many of these new members are beginner hikers and new to the concept of forums and forum etiquette. This has been associated with the posting of some repetitious and elementary information requests. Subsequent to these requests we've seen some cutting and cynical responses and other threads and posts that suggest that the patience of the more experienced members is being tried.

    So far, we have adjusted the forum's structure and next, we will be addressing these issues in a preventive and educational manner head-on with new members as they sign up.
    Is it just me, or is there WAAAAY too much sarcasm on this board? And oh by the way, it gets misinterpreted.

    It's not just the new members that need educating...

    And yeah, I might be looking in the mirror a little here as well, but I try not to bust on noobs.
    Tom Rankin - 5444W "In the depths of Summer, I finally learned that there lay within me an invincible Winter"

    Proud Member #0003 of ADKHP Foundation
    Volunteer Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President Catskill 3500 Club
    CEO Views And Brews!

    Trail maintainer for the Dry Brook Ridge trail from Mill Brook Road to just past the Lean-to

    Comment


    • #3
      What I think would be good would be maybe some sort of short document for new members that details the kind of questions that generally elicit good responses.

      I tend to skip over posts where someone asks very general questions that make it obvious that they have done little or no research on their own, and are looking for someone else to essentially "plan their trip for them." The posts that I tend to enjoy replying to more are those where the forum member has done at least some research, has a specific destination in mind (or at least a clear description of what they want their trip to look like).

      In essence, when it's clear that someone is willing to put more work into planning their own trip, that's when I'm going to take it upon myself to put more work into providing clear and (hopefully) accurate responses.

      Anyone else ever feel this way?

      Comment


      • #4
        I think also a prominent link somewhere to a website where the ADK guidebooks, Discover guidebooks, and NG maps can easily be purchased online, along with a clear message that says "Get these. These guidebooks and maps should be your #1 source for information. Information from ADKHighPeaks/ADKForum can only supplement the information contained in the books and maps, and what you read on these forums isn't enough by itself to adequately plan a trip."

        Would it be possible for the foundation to sell these guidebooks and maps? Or would that raise issues with the non-profit part?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
          What I think would be good would be maybe some sort of short document for new members that details the kind of questions that generally elicit good responses.

          I tend to skip over posts where someone asks very general questions that make it obvious that they have done little or no research on their own, and are looking for someone else to essentially "plan their trip for them." The posts that I tend to enjoy replying to more are those where the forum member has done at least some research, has a specific destination in mind (or at least a clear description of what they want their trip to look like).

          In essence, when it's clear that someone is willing to put more work into planning their own trip, that's when I'm going to take it upon myself to put more work into providing clear and (hopefully accurate) responses.

          Anyone else ever feel this way?
          Yup. I'm more likely to try to provide responses when it's clear that someone has already done some research. But I don't personally set that bar too high...just some clear indication that they have looked at a map and perhaps a guide book. e.g. "I have concerns about exposure. Given that, which route to Gothics do you think would be best? I think I'd be nervous about the cable route, but I've also read that the climb of Pyramid is steep and exposed in places. What about the Beaver Meadows trail. How exposed are those ladders?"

          As far as the suggestion to use the search function, I admit that when I first started posting on here and VFTT, I thought it a bit abrupt when people would jump on people for posting on a topic that had been discussed recently (you know, within the last 2-3 years!), criticizing them for not searching first. Much kinder to simply say there was a recent thread on this subject, and provide the link. I found that the search function here wasn't all that good, but someone suggested using google advanced search within the ADKhighpeaks.com domain. That works well and I've been using it ever since.
          Nature we have always with us, an inexhaustible storehouse of that which moves the heart, appeals to the mind, and fires the imagination - health to the body, a stimulus to the intellect, and a joy to the soul. - John Burroughs

          Comment


          • #6
            There is a saying that the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. In my view, new members should be encouraged to ask questions. And I donít care if the questioner did any research before asking the question.

            My view is that veteran members are free to read, or not read, a thread asking a basic question. Likewise, veteran members are free to answer, or not answer, a basic question. It does bother me, however, when a basic question is met with cutting and cynical responses. It is those veteran members that create problems, not the new members.
            46-R #5193W

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
              I think also a prominent link somewhere to a website where the ADK guidebooks, Discover guidebooks, and NG maps can easily be purchased online, along with a clear message that says "Get these. These guidebooks and maps should be your #1 source for information. Information from ADKHighPeaks/ADKForum can only supplement the information contained in the books and maps, and what you read on these forums isn't enough by itself to adequately plan a trip."

              Would it be possible for the foundation to sell these guidebooks and maps? Or would that raise issues with the non-profit part?
              There are a number of good links to said websites. Given that, what do others think of having a "bibliography" of good websites for guidebooks, maps, and other resources (weather, orienteering, first aid, etc) provided?
              We are closer now than we were five minutes ago

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Neil View Post
                ADKHP forum prides itself on running a lightly moderated forum. We owe any success we've had in that regard to the obviously high quality of our membership.

                Due to this success and the increasing popularity of the forum we have recently seen a large influx of new members. Many of these new members are beginner hikers and new to the concept of forums and forum etiquette. This has been associated with the posting of some repetitious and elementary information requests. Subsequent to these requests we've seen some cutting and cynical responses and other threads and posts that suggest that the patience of the more experienced members is being tried.

                So far, we have adjusted the forum's structure and next, we will be addressing these issues in a preventive and educational manner head-on with new members as they sign up.

                As we grapple with these challenges, we request your collaboration in keeping this forum lightly moderated.

                Thanks!
                Is this a copy of what was PM'd to Rik?
                Looking for Views!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                  I tend to skip over posts where someone asks very general questions that make it obvious that they have done little or no research on their own, and are looking for someone else to essentially "plan their trip for them." The posts that I tend to enjoy replying to more are those where the forum member has done at least some research, has a specific destination in mind (or at least a clear description of what they want their trip to look like).

                  In essence, when it's clear that someone is willing to put more work into planning their own trip, that's when I'm going to take it upon myself to put more work into providing clear and (hopefully) accurate responses.

                  Anyone else ever feel this way?
                  Very true, I feel the same way. I'm not going to do the initial research in detail for someone (which I strongly believe is really part of the adventure itself), but I am willing to make experienced suggestions to an inexperienced plan that shows some reasonable prior thought.

                  Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                  I think also a prominent link somewhere to a website where the ADK guidebooks, Discover guidebooks, and NG maps can easily be purchased online, along with a clear message that says "Get these. These guidebooks and maps should be your #1 source for information.
                  Many other questions require understanding the official DEC guidelines, policy, and regulations. While the DEC website can be a bit confusing, once you learn how navigate it you will find a wealth of useful and necessary information. Links to its most relevant pages should be included.
                  "Leave the beaten track behind occasionally and dive into the woods. Every time you do you will be certain to find something you have never seen before." - Alexander Graham Bell

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nessmuk View Post
                    Many other questions require understanding the official DEC guidelines, policy, and regulations. While the DEC website can be a bit confusing, once you learn how navigate it you will find a wealth of useful and necessary information. Links to its most relevant pages should be included.
                    I generally direct people to the ADK's website on backcountry regulations: http://www.adk.org/trails/High_Peaks_Hike-Backpack.aspx

                    The DEC summary page is also better than the page where the actual regulations themselves are listed, but unfortunately it lacks some of the nuances of the High Peaks regulations: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                      I generally direct people to the ADK's website on backcountry regulations: http://www.adk.org/trails/High_Peaks_Hike-Backpack.aspx

                      The DEC summary page is also better than the page where the actual regulations themselves are listed, but unfortunately it lacks some of the nuances of the High Peaks regulations: http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html
                      The ADK site is certainly compact, but you must admit there is much much more in the varied pages of the DEC site, especially when you go beyond the small fraction of the state land that is the HP.
                      "Leave the beaten track behind occasionally and dive into the woods. Every time you do you will be certain to find something you have never seen before." - Alexander Graham Bell

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Trail Boss View Post
                        Is this a copy of what was PM'd to Rik?
                        Haha! No one has been singled out or approached individually, so far. I think everyone is able to look in the mirror and see if the boot fits.

                        However, the "bad smell" needs to be fixed right away. If need be some posts will disappear. Don't expect a PM if this happens to one of yours but feel free to inquire if you don't understand why.

                        Reading some of the excellent posts above I already have a good idea how to educate new members when they join the forum. There will always be exceptions even after explaining the basics to new members (that won't always get read) But, any offensive, rude, denigrating, mean-spirited, sarcastic, cutting or injurious responses will get deleted right away.
                        1111111111

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I mentioned this somewhere else recently -- the newbie inquiry is as much about dipping their toe in the forum water, meeting new people, etc., as it is about actual information. If I immediately found all the information I was looking for, I might never meet anyone who shares my interest.

                          So, one can respond to the newbie inquiry with a suggestion or two and a hint on how to find further information, like "and try searching for X Y and Z". A lot of times, it's hard to search when you don't know what you're searching for. I find the vBulletin search feature fairly unhelpful and often use Google with +site:www.vftt.org or +site:www.adkhighpeaks.com in the query.

                          Tim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DSettahr View Post
                            I tend to skip over posts where someone asks very general questions that make it obvious that they have done little or no research on their own, and are looking for someone else to essentially "plan their trip for them." The posts that I tend to enjoy replying to more are those where the forum member has done at least some research, has a specific destination in mind (or at least a clear description of what they want their trip to look like).
                            This "problem" has become a "problem" all because for about 2 years our solution to this "problem" was just to wait until, DSetthar, took the time to write out some lengthy articulate response!
                            Be quick - but don't hurry. -John Wooden

                            Middle age is having a choice between two temptations and choosing the one that'll get you home earlier. ~Dan Bennett

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Neil View Post
                              Haha! No one has been singled out or approached individually, so far. I think everyone is able to look in the mirror and see if the boot fits.

                              However, the "bad smell" needs to be fixed right away. If need be some posts will disappear. Don't expect a PM if this happens to one of yours but feel free to inquire if you don't understand why.

                              Reading some of the excellent posts above I already have a good idea how to educate new members when they join the forum. There will always be exceptions even after explaining the basics to new members (that won't always get read) But, any offensive, rude, denigrating, mean-spirited, sarcastic, cutting or injurious responses will get deleted right away.
                              My bad. ....
                              ADK 46-R #6750W
                              CL-50 - #51
                              CATSKILLS- 9/39
                              NPT Complete 7-6-13

                              Hiking photos

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