I can't even stand ...

[ProbKid]

... to read one of the other hiking boards I used to frequent. It seems any out-of-step comment results in an outright BAN from The Grand Owner-Deity.

Granted turd-heads (I may now be deemed one) are a liability to any public forum, but I am interested in understanding why this isn't an issue here.

Is it the size of the group? Is it a higher general tolerance? Do people find things easier to brush off without jeopardy of a "square?"

I am seriously interested in understanding why things are not painful here. Of course, if this topic turns too edgy, I'll ask for it to be closed and withdrawl my inquiry (killing my theory, I suppose).

[AlpineSummit]

I believe that's partly because we're lucky enuff that *seemingly* all of us have our heads on straight.
The population is small enough that many of us know each other by name, face, etc. We all even have a little bit of history. You can thank Spencer for that.

'One-upmanship' has not appeared here, at all. No giant egos fueling themselves on this board.

And, like the pilgrims of yore, we're all here to escape oppression!

We also have a cool leader, who took the time to compose a terrific Mission Statement. And we all seem to have read and embraced it. Kudos to us for that.

But lastly & most importantly; Real hikers are just damn cool people.

[Peakbagr]

I'll offer another perspective.

People get banned on the "other" board for a variety of reasons. Usually 'cause they can't control themselves. Often, but not always, its because of things that happen behind the scenes. Then "The Grand Owner-Deity" gets portrayed in public as completely unreasonable when the exilee complains about unfair treatment. The moderators usually choose not to get into a futher explanation in a public forum.

Big boards are like big cities. Few know each other, and act that way. Small boards are like little villages where everyone knows everyone else. There are bullies in both and law enforcement seldom gets to offer its perspective.

Speaking for myself, things are nice around here as no one seems to be looking for an argument.

[lumberzac]

Great analogy Peakbagr.
I have noticed that everyone is very respectful of one another on this board. Lets hope it always stays that way.

[pete_hickey]

The larger a group is, the greater the probability that there will be people who do not get along. It's math.

The longer a group is in existance, the greater the chance that hostilities will grow. Most marriages don't fail in the first year, do they?

Gie it time, and I'll start getting on someone's nerves, and they'll start calling me a bent screwdriver, and I'll call them a crocked pliers.

[Neil]

Like Peakbagr says, smalll town vs. big city.

When this forum was born (I cut the umbilical cord :D) the initial 30 or 40 members were either already friends or were friends of friends. That nucleus really set the stage here and it was unthinkable that any flaming or bad-mouthing would occur. As the forum grows that relaxed and friendly atmosphere is holding steady and no moderation has been necessary.



We also have a cool leader, who took the time to compose a terrific Mission Statement. And we all seem to have read and embraced it. Kudos to us for that.

Yessiree, that mission statement sure is a work of art. I'd like to shake the hand of the person who wrote it. :roll:


Over at VFTT there were a lot of troublemakers, flaming, trolling and snarkiness. Things were getting out of hand. Then the Administrator cracked down, enabled the rating system and weeded some bad apples out. Things have settled down a lot but you might say the itchy finger is still close to the trigger.

In defense of VFTT I think it is a very valuable resource with many knowledgeable people on board. You can have fun and joke around there but the leash is shorter.

[hillman1]

There is a guy on summitpost eastern section that hates vftt. I don't kow what happened but he reminds me of the unabomber. I think he is from montreal. That might explain his blatant antiamerican sentiment :twisted: ...that was just a joke--please don't ban me oh great viceroy.

[Dick]

I think PB is on to something here. There is a certain accountability that comes with knowing other people on the board. Being big and anonymous sometimes allows people to say things they wouldn't say in person. I wouldn't say anything here that I wouldn't say directly to Neil or Tim or anyone else. I think by knowing each other we also give each other the "benefit of the doubt" when something comes up that might cause a stir. I think we know that even when we disagree it is done with respect. For example, if Neil posted something that struck me as offensive my initial reaction would be to ask for clarification rather than to retaliate. This is because I know Neil and that he is here because he loves the outdoors and wants to learn/teach/share experiences. I don't think it takes long to see when someone is trolling or looking to argue for the sake of arguing. I think here it would get ignored instead of engaged. I love it here.

I have only hiked with a couple of people here (Neil, Rik, Peakbagr, Tim, lumberzac, masshysteria, hawk (sorry for those I've forgotten), but they are all people who I would love to hike with again (I understand if the feeling is not mutual!:)). I think Pete Hickey got it right -- size has a lot to do with it, though I can't imagine Pete getting on anyone's nerves!

I'll admit that, in spite of a few flare-ups, ADKforum has been a good "home" for me as well -- and also for several of you, or you wouldn't post there! There is a certain irony in the fact that many of the people mentioned on this board post on VFTT, ADKforum as well. I have hiked with many on that board and have gotten to know them personally -- which I hope to do here.

Things are nice here...I think I'll stay awhile...but let's not think that any particular board is the be-all and the end-all of boards.

Dick

[TFR]

... to read one of the other hiking boards I used to frequent. It seems any out-of-step comment results in an outright BAN from The Grand Owner-Deity.

As the first responder to the now banned individual, I thought he was somewhat intolerant. He later proved just how rude he was in later posts, and I believe his ban was justified. The G.O.-D. is in a mode now where he is trying to make V*** a better place. He has chosen his own way, and I will not criticize or praise him, until I am made moderator for a week, not a job I am actually looking for! :D

As for red s******, I have received a few, but none after they were made public. This does not surprise me.

[Jay H]

I think having a small demographics helps a lot. I remember VfTT before the board changed formats, and although I wasn't one of the original posters, I have been there for a bit.

Certainly, growth is in good and bad, nothing much to do or blame there.

Personally, don't give a rat's *ss about the rep points, but I'm glad we don't have that here or think we need them. All it is a system for friends to pat each other's back, which makes the whole system pointless. Makes one feel like high school! :)

Jay

[Hikerdad]

What I like about this board is that here there are real, serious hikers here who don't take themselves real serious.

[ProbKid]

I really appreciate everyone's comments. There are many excellent points.

My own reaction in starting this thread about an obscure situation in an different forum is testimony to the reasonable tolerance I see in this community. I know nothing is perfect, but I sincerely appreciate the effort everyone makes for open communications & a little extra tolerance.

Even though we haven't met yet, I know that I will be making the extra effort to introduce myself in person someday.

Again, thanks to all!
Fran

[jtbigmoose]

Might geography might have something to do with it?
I lived in Upstate NY for 33 years and in Quebec for a spell, and have spent the last 25 years just north of Boston, so I speak from experience.
The great majority of people on this site are Upstaters or Canadians.
There you have it.
C'est ca.

[Neil]

It must be the great majority of us Canadians who make this site so warm and wooly and wonderful! Meo, Louis, Primo, Spaddock, Yvon, Timmus, Neil and that Viceroy guy complete the tableau but what a positive force. Vive le Canadien!

[hawk]

It must be the great majority of us Canadians who make this site so warm and wooly and wonderful! Meo, Louis, Primo, Spaddock, Yvon, Timmus, Neil and that Viceroy guy complete the tableau but what a positive force. Vive le Canadien!

Now, theres some BS that could really stir up a hornets nest!

[Rick]

I'd been posting on VFTT in one form or the other since around 97. I'll give my own theory, as I don;t think there are many AMC members in upstate NY. I only joined the AMC after we moved from NY in 2000 and I became affiliated with one of their chapters. On VFTT, I never really noticed any out and out hostilities and such (at least ones that didn't cause such serious gang mentality) until the AMC pulled Mountains and Molehills off their board around November of 2004, IIRC. I did go to M&M on occasion but there were some real doozies there as well as some seriously inappropriate stuff being said. This all also occurred during the Bush re-election, which can cause some tempers to flare more readily.

As it were, I thought some VFTT members (and there were some new ones that joined up then) started to get a bit more antagonistic. There were some names on their I hadn't seen before and they seemed to be stirring things up a bit.

the other time VFTT seemed to get out of control was after the first crash following the recent format change around 2001 or 2002. There seemed to be a lot of "Where are you from...", "what do you do...", "what do you like...", "what do you listen to..." type threads that just semed to take up a lot of bandwidth (though in all honesty, I did respond to some and I did enjoy some.).
Just my thoughts on the issue. I am not totally in favor of the current closed membership status, as I do beleive in open borders, but I think I understand what got us there and I certainly know that if it werre my site, I would have pulled the plug long ago.
Rick

[Mavs00]

We also have a cool leader, who took the time to compose a terrific Mission Statement. And we all seem to have read and embraced it. Kudos to us for that....

Yeah, that's it. But I must confess, Neil wrote the mission statement. I gave it to him as a test to see if he REALLY understood what this site what about. Turns out he must, since it was good enough to get him promoted. ;)

Actually, I kind of stayed out of this thread on purpose, because quite honestly. VFTT, (or ADKForum, or this board) is what it is, and they are what they are, good or bad. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t even allow this thread to stand as I have a general rule of thumb that doesn’t allow for the discussing other forums (or aspects of that forum) on this site. One exception would be if it ends up serving a purpose. I have allowed posts about VFTT and ADKForum in the past, but only if I think that the thread actually has some positive value (not forum bashing). I will admit, me and Neil are the only ones determining what that value is. In this case, I thinks it's okay to delve into discussions about how thig run on this site.

I read the post in question on VFTT (I think anyway) and to be honest, I would have nuked the posts and followed up with a warning that the poster "violated" one of my stated rules (#2), and appeared to do so deliberately Any flack from them, and they'd be BANNED without jury by peer. It's one thing to be annoying cuz you think your right, or your not good at debate, or simply over responsive to a particular topic, but its altogether another to issue unprovoked, incendiary attacks (which that one was) directly against the owner/admin of the board or other members. So I can't say I blame the Darren one bit for that situation.

As to thoughts about this forum, I have to say, whoever made the comment about "gotten to big" was on to something. It's pretty impersonal on VFTT and the more impersonal it gets, the less I feel like sharing Size will do that. I wouldn't walk up to some dude on the street and start rattling off TR's, gear advice, or general BC knowledge I've accumulated over the years, and I’m getting less inclined to do it with anonymous screen names on a BB too. For that very reason, membership here will be -CAPPED at 400- (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/rules.php#member). At that time we'll be able to access that size group and determine the best course of actions. We can "open the books" so to speak anytime we need to in order to control growth to a point that doesn’t harm the "community" at large.

As to the initial question of why. It's been alluded to. I think there was a small core group of caring and knowledgeable folks that really "shaped" the polite, unpretentious and overall "pleasant" feel of this site. Behaviors outside those simple thoughts are simply not "accepted" by the rest of us. You wouldn’t go lay a huge butt bomb in church would you? It’s just not done. No question, we disagree on things, but for the most part, it's done in a respectful and tolerant way and I see no reason that that won’t continue. That’s not a testament to me, Neil or anyone else in particular, it's a testament to ALL OF US for not accepting anything less. Don’t get me wrong, I'm not naive, I do understand that it's a lot easier to be able to manage this in a small community of 215+ members, as opposed to the one with over 1000+ (or 2000+ for VFTT).

We are small, but I know from periodic checks of the traffic through here, our reach is expanding and that the DEEP knowledge base here certainly appreciated. More people silently lurk than post.

[ProbKid]

Mods,

Can you lock this thread? We had some excellent comments made, and I believe everyone interested in posting has done so already.

Let's get back to hiking!

[Neil]

Prob,
No need to lock it IMO. You do have to realize that once you start a thread it may take on a life of it's own and head in directions you can't predict. Words one writes out of a desire to vent may be regretted later and then those words can stick around on the homepage as people keep responding to the post. I'm not saying this is necessarily your case here but I know it has been my experience.
Anyhow, there's nothing wrong with a little "sideline discussion" as long as it stays reasonable as is the case here.

[Mavs00]

Ditto, what Neil said.

Granted turd-heads (I may now be deemed one) are a liability to any public forum, but I am interested in understanding why this isn't an issue here.

Is it the size of the group? Is it a higher general tolerance? Do people find things easier to brush off without jeopardy of a "square?"

I am seriously interested in understanding why things are not painful here. Of course, if this topic turns too edgy, I'll ask for it to be closed and withdrawl my inquiry (killing my theory, I suppose).

So far, this thread has been a PERFECT example of the exact thing that you were trying to understand in the first place. Which, as an aside, I personally don't think has ANYTHING to do with Canada ;).

[ProbKid]

(Shameless pandering to our Canadian Friends ;) )

[masshysteria]

But lastly & most importantly; Real hikers are just damn cool people.

There it is, in a nutshell!!


I've often wondered if some people view the sarcasm, facetiousness, and nutbustin as being serious? I gotta tell ya, there are times I get tears in my eyes from laughing at some of the things that get said here. Especially Neil and Bruce! If you ever get a chance to go on a hike with anyone on this forum, DO IT! There's no better way to get to know someone than to spend the day hiking with them. Then you'll really appreciate their humor! Let's keep this baby the way she is , a fun place to spend some time. Thanks Tim!

[peak_bgr]

There are so many people here that I haven't met. I would love to meet all that I can-all if possible.

How about an ADK Forum winter gathering? So a large majority of us can get together and shoot the s... without getting writers cramp. We could have it at the ADK Loj Campground-like the one I held a couple years ago. It was cold, but a damn good time.

Tim, have you given any thought to ADK Forum patches-so we can recognize the unfamiliar faces on the trail?

[ADKatie]

Hey Spence, we knew what you meant! ;) ;)

[Neil]

There are so many people here that I haven't met. I would love to meet all that I can-all if possible.

How about an ADK Forum winter gathering? So a large majority of us can get together and shoot the s... without getting writers cramp. We could have it at the ADK Loj Campground-like the one I held a couple years ago. It was cold, but a damn good time.

What about Ark Trail Motel? I posted it on VFTT as well but maybe there's enough interest here. I talked to the new owner on Wed. and they have 10 rooms available and are open to people camping as well. He'll let me know next week about us taking over the kitchen. Maybe we could start a new thread with a poll simply asking for a show of hands.

[hawk]

What about Ark Trail Motel? I posted it on VFTT as well but maybe there's enough interest here. I talked to the new owner on Wed. and they have 10 rooms available and are open to people camping as well. He'll let me know next week about us taking over the kitchen. Maybe we could start a new thread with a poll simply asking for a show of hands.

Might be sure to specify adkHIGHPEAKS forums so that people don't confuse it with the adkforum get-togethers in December and January!

[pete_hickey]

We could have it at the ADK Loj Campground-like the one I held a couple years ago. It was cold, but a damn good time.

Funny, but I have REAL bad memories of that one. I went down for it, one morning, went for a hike the when I got down, fell off a cliff, and broke my head. I think I'd be afraid to go to another.

[percious]

I love VFTT, always have but I wish Darren would have enlisted more moderators instead of closing the site to new members. I know he and Alan got stressed from all of the BS they had to endure but like Rik I enjoy open borders. VFTT was a victim to its own success. I also noticed the change when AMC's M+M closed and a lot of people that liked to fight more than hike drifted over. M+M was very poorly moderated and I can only thank Darren and Alan for their patience.... they have way more than I do!


Sorry to bring us away from the winter gathering, but this is my exact opinion. I think views has grown too large for just 2 moderators, and people on the board are upset because the site is being run more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I mean, afterall, what is a board without it's members?

I *like* that this board is limited, but it has been limited from the start, not from a random decree after some quabbles. I do however like how you have limited it, by requiring you to post or your username gets zapped. More than half the people registered on Views do not post, which I think is leading to less and less activity as people find other boards to post on.

-percious

[AlpineSummit]

The only real problem I have seen on vftt is the holier-than-thou attitude that is often so prevalent there. Periwinkle calls 'em 'third rate hiking gods' and she's right. The mods do a fine job, always have, and that's not easy. It involves a lot of reading threads that they may have no interest in and that takes time. I bet PB spends an hour a day on average just to keep up.

Don't forget, virtually ALL of us have had many good times and very much great info from that board. It has served it's purpose but I think the user rep thing turns a lot of people off cuz it's just a popularity thing, and as such, easily seen as what it really is: An unnecessary way to divide people. Folks like me used to appreciate the fact that vftt brought us together and let us form a community. That brought about face to face meetings and launched many a good time.

[percious]

I agree that the rating system has divided people, but I also like to get feedback on my posts, and have had some PMs as a result. For that reason it is a good thing, but I really could do without it.

I think you are right about the difficulties in moderation, but I think they should just get more moderators if it is that hard. I definitely think there is a holier-than-thou attitude on that site, but it is not coming from *just* the members. Can't we all just get along?

-percious

[AlpineSummit]

Can't we all just get along?

-percious

NO!
You took in a dip in the upper lake,,,,,,,,,,,,

[lumberzac]

Originally Posted by percious
Can't we all just get along?
NO!
You took in a dip in the upper lake,,,,,,,,,,,,

Can't you just feel the love. :D

[Neil]

NO!
You took in a dip in the upper lake,,,,,,,,,,,,
I waterskiied on Upper Ausable Lake. It was so cool.

[Mavs00]

I can understand some of this, but I do want to point one thing out... we all know about problems, or have an opinions about the doings at vftt............ Thing is, we're not gonna change it from ADKHighPeaks forums, so perhaps we should try to focus things that we can do here to make it better. I completely understand the frustration, but try to remember, Peakbagr, who is a VALUED member of THIS forum, IS a moderator over there and he (from what I understand) gets a tons of crap about VFTT stuff at VFTT. From babysitting duties to "you guys need to this and you need to do this". I would personally be grateful to everyone if we tried to be sensitive to the fact that he's spent a GREAT deal of his time and energy trying to do good things as a moderator there and we perhaps we should try to limit his frustration to stuff he does over there to, well......over there.

As a valued member (as all regular contributors are here), he should not have to log onto this forum to read about what a crappy job they (or he) are doing over there. If I had to guess, I'd say he enjoys this forum cuz he can just be peakbagr and not Moderatorbagr and all the crap that goes with it.

Ditto, the ADKForum, several very good and valued forum members here (Lumberzach, Dick, Hawk, Sacco, Stoopid ect.....) are, or were, moderators there and are still very active. I assume they wouldn't want to come on this site to listen to people badmouth problems or issues going on those at their sites. I know I wouldn't if it were turned around.

In the context of " Gee folks, IMO, the rating system on VFTT is really having a negative impact over there. We aren't thinking of implementing it here, are we?" or even "Thanks for not doing that here". I have no problem with that, in fact, I think it helps guide us in the right direction for us. But its a very thin line from there to "vftt sucks now" and other types of forum bashing.

I'm not admonishing here, and this thread will remain open unless it denigrates. I just want everyone to remember, there is somewhat of a Incestuous relationship between all three forums (VFTT, ADKForum, and this one). Many belong to 2 or even all 3. I assume each of us have our own reasons for being members of each, and things that we appreciate (or dislike) about each one. we should try to remember that when discussing other forums. As an example, I LOVE THE REPUTATION SYSTEM, and YOU PEOPLE THAT RAIL ON IT ARE JUST JELOUS of all those green boxes lined up next to my name. ;). Okay, actually I think it's pretty dumb myself for the very reason we all mention (hence, it's never coming here), but still.... you get my point. It's really not helpful and only leads to discourse with others that feel differently than you. And while respectful discourse is not always bad, it usless in this setting because none of us here are in a position to dictate how the sites elsewhere are run.

Prob kids initial post was good. She stated an opinion than posed a question that related directly to THIS site. I read more that her question was more relating to us and not vftt anyway. Okay enough hot air :blah:

Thanks, and ADKhipeaks rules :bang:

[percious]

Thanks for letting me vent. I needed that.

I waterskiied on Upper Ausable Lake. It was so cool.

Wow. I am just picturing some guy (perhaps your son) with his arms going a mile a minute paddling a canoe pulling you. That's some funny stuff.

-percious

[Iceman]

After reading this thread twice, I had reservations about opening it back up again. It seemed like Mavs was on the fence about allowing it to continue because the drift of the discussion contains a lot of complaining about how other forums are run. Personally, I’m getting tired of reading about it.

I joined this forum to learn from people that had more experience than myself. I’ll even take advice from someone with less experience but I can’t say that I’ll always agree with everything that’s posted. I respect other people’s opinion and I expect the same. No one likes being told that they are wrong but if you think that you have a better way of doing something, present it to me in a positive manner, not a condescending one. Like I said, I’m here to learn.

New posts of interest to me seem to be slow in coming. I’ve noticed that there are a handful of members here that actually start threads, others react to them in agreement. It’s like people are afraid to disagree around here.

“Differing opinions make the world go round, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything. As long as debates are kept civil and respectful, then we all learn something.”

Being new here, most of my posts are in the form of questions or I will ask for clarification if there is something that I don’t understand. I enjoy engaging the community in discussion and would like to think that as a regular contributor (1.75 posts per day), I am a valued member of this forum even if I’ve only been posting here for the past two months. As time goes on, I would like to think that I can also offer advice and not be disrespected as if I didn’t know what I’m talking about.

I did not join this forum to vent and I have made very few frivolous posts. I’ve been reading old threads in order to learn and that’s how I came across this one. If I read something that I don’t understand or feel that I can add value to the thread then I open it up again. If that creates more work for the moderators then I’m sorry but as long as a thread is open, I should be allowed to add to it. I think that’s better than having a lot of threads about the same thing. But if the moderators feel that this post does not belong here then by all means, move it or delete it. I won’t be offended. I would probably send a PM asking why but that’s only so I can learn from my mistake.

Being new to forums in general, there is some terminology used in this thread that I do not understand:

“I don’t think it takes long to see when someone is trolling or looking to argue for the sake of arguing. I think that it would get ignored instead of engaged.”

“Over at VFTT there were a lot of troublemakers, flaming, trolling and snarkiness.”

What is trolling? Flaming I have heard of before but I am unsure of its definition. I have no idea what snarkiness means? If no one responds to this post or any other one that I post, should I take that to mean that I am trolling?

Iceman

[Peakbagr]

From Tim, last year in this thread that you just had to reanimate: ..."he should not have to log onto this forum to read about what a crappy job they (or he) are doing over there. If I had to guess, I'd say he enjoys this forum cuz he can just be peakbagr and not Moderatorbagr and all the crap that goes with it."

I've read a number of your posts. You seem to be an otherwise thoughtful person. Given that, why do you find it necessary to dredge up a thread from last year to answer a question about trolling? The definition of which can be found with the most routine of internet searches?

If this helps any: "troll v.,n. To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"; which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling";, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.
The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll.
If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it.
The following extract is from a broader expansion of the defining comments given above:
In Usenet usage, a troll is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses.
The content of a "troll posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of a newsgroup, or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings."

Only you can answer whether you are trolling, but I'd guess so.
:cry:

[Mavs00]

After a thoughtful PM or two, I decided to open this thread back up.

Here's the deal. Iceman, you made some salient points and you're correct on an open thread point, you're fully entitled to post to it. I think what peakbagr (and myself and perhaps others) were wondering was...... WHY. A thread, particularly one like this, is much like a year old TR. It's really only a "point in time" reference. At the time, it was in response to specific things that were happening in the little world of Adirondack/NE hiking BB lands. People were frustrated and felt a little more at ease here. It was allowed so long as it stayed focused and directed, which it did. It lived and died it's typical 3-4 day lifecycle.

I think your post, 6 months to late (which is a lifetime ago in these forums :D ) made people go.............. hmmmmmm. That's all. I'm sure noone thought you did so maliciously (I certainly didn't). I only closed it so quick the other the other day because, as you mentioned, my finger was already over the button.

As to the things you say in your post (valid points all), there's not much to say. You're right. Again, all I can say is this board is what it is. Thats all it ever will be.

New posts of interest to me seem to be slow in coming. I’ve noticed that there are a handful of members here that actually start threads, others react to them in agreement. It’s like people are afraid to disagree around here.

To that I would only say, look deeper. In this board, I think you have an older (I say that respectfully ;) ) deeply knowledgeable crowd of "thoughtful, reasoned and respectful" people that have all sort of "evolved" to similar "lines of thought". Member for member, I would have to say that this board has THE deepest Adirondack knowledge base and experienced membership going. That's not to say, others don't have a good knowledge base, and much of the knowledge base is shared among boards I just think this one is deeper member for member (remember, we're pretty small, but have LOTS of knowledge).

Compared to many others places, you won't see as much of the "seasoned" (for lack of a better word ;) ) membership posting "I'm headed up Marcy this week, should I bring my crampons" . They just don't need those answers. If you (or anyone else) ask that question as many do, you'll get your answer, for sure. It's not that that stuff is not welcome, it is just that many established members rarely posts that kind of stuff, here anyway.

Ask a question about bushwhacking, off-trail navagation, Adirondack history or philosophical ramblings about how to best protect the places we love, and you'll really see the knowledge muscle flex.

So I guess with all this rambling, what I am trying to say is....... This board is what it is, and we hope you find enjoyment out if it. But I'll be honest too, if you're looking for one of us to start a thread like "Does it matter what color gear you buy?" (a real thread elsewhere right now :D ), you'll probably be disappointed. Not that there anything wrong with a thread like that, it's just not the stuff you see alot of here I guess.

So, I apologize if I nuked the thread in response to your post a little quick. You did nothing wrong. I realize that, so here it is open again. Feel free to post often and to any thread you like within the rules. I hope that explains it better.

By the way, to answer your initial question. This is an INTERNET TROLL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)