Slide Data (specifics)

[Mavs00]

I know one of you ner..... errr, I mean slide guru's have this an I'm hoping you'll pass it along.

I'm looking for Distance/Elevation change (over the length) for several of the popular slides, like....

Eagle, Bottle, Trap Dyke, Nippletop, Great Slide and Bennies...

I don't need to know any other data than that. And don't give me any of that "wait for the book" crap :roll:. This is the VICEROY talking here, and I command you to release the data :D

Here or on PM is fine. I just need it for compairison for another project......

[Neil]

I have those figures for a few slides on my computer at home. You know, you can find that info quite easily on USAPhotoMaps if the slide is visible on the aerial photo. You click your mouse button and get the waypoints which you can then either load directly into your gps or you can manually tranfer them into Topo! and do a profile. You can even have Topos waypoint window open in Photomap and simply hover the mouse pointer over the slide base and top and type in the numbers.

[Mavs00]

Yeah, I know, I know........ I can do it myself.

I have USA maps (great program) on the PC (its not Mac happy) and my topo is in on the Mac. So it's kinda a pain. I was hoping you already had it and could just spit out the numbers.

One other thing. When it comes to Giant, I can't be positive I know which slide is which. I THINK Eagle is the big one in the center. If so I get (roughly) 78% grade, 38 degree slope. Sound right?

Not sure which one the bottle is and I'm two lazy to do the MAC/PC two step in order to find out the others :shock: .

[Neil]

Bottle I have a tracklog for and IIRC it's about 70% . 78% sounds right for Eagle. I think I have a log for Nip but that was before I became an author.

I have a topo file that Qam1 helped me make for all the Giant slides. I'll send it along.

[Neil]

Here you go:

Colden 1990: 1250 vert. in .7 miles.
Kilburn: 900' in .4
Wright: 600' in .17
Nip: 1300' in .5
Bottle: 800' in .18

[Mavs00]

I putted around and looked at some old track logs and did a little USAPhotomap work too. I got similar numbers on some, but differing on others. Of course it all dependend and where you start and where you finish you dat line.

Nippletop - (Actual data - I took in the field - From the drainage to the top chute) I got 1470/.55 miles which is 50% (26.2 degrees). The same

Bottle - (satellite data) I must have measured the wrong slide. I got 680/.18 (or 69%/34.5 degrees), which is significantly "less steep" than the 80%/40 degree numbers you posted. Although, you numbers match close to what I get for the Eagle Slide, so I wonder if I got the wrong slide. Send me that file :)

Macomb - (actual DATA) This one suprised me. I view it a pretty tame and have gone up/down it a few times, but the numbers don't lie. It a very respectable 480/.165 miles (55%/28.8 degrees)

Bennies Brook - (actual DATA - from my notes) A very mellow and long 1150/.6 miles (36%/20 degrees)

I'll add a few more if I find em.

[Hikerdad]

What are the calculations for the % and degree's? I think I've seen them before but can't remember them (and I'm too lazy to find the thread someplace........) Thanks,

[Mavs00]

Pat

Only a real nerd (like Rico :twisted: ) can give you the whole mathmatics garbage behind it all, but for this dummy, here's the easy way to do it. I'll use the Bennies Brook example above.

Elevation Change (1150 feet) / Distance in feet (3168 feet = 5280 x .6) = .36300 . Multiply that by 100 to get % grade. or 36%

Now here where it get's really nerdy and you can just skip it. Go -HERE- (http://www.math.com/students/calculators/source/scientific.htm) or any scientific calculator with an Inverse tangent function(usually the INV button), and then take the raw value (.36300) and hit INV (inverse tangent), then immediatly hit Tan (tangent) to give you the value of 19.95 (I rounded to 20). That is your degree slope.

You might notice that % Grade ends at 100 % (1.00) which is only a 45 degree slope. High Angle slopes are about that and above.

Make sense. It doesn't to me either, but the math is right, so who cares :)

[Boreal Chickadee]

And if you're borrowing your kid's TI-83+ the you press 2nd (the yellow button), tan, (which displays as tan with a raised negative one) and then your decimal that Tim had you compute. Press enter. This is degree slope as your answer.

Instead of computing the decimal separately, you can also just insert the fraction in the parentheses on your display. Press enter. Degree slope is your answer.

I'm assuming you're working off of map distance as your "run". Otherwise, if you use actaul GPS readings you're using "opposite", your rise, and "hypotenuse", and the correct trig function would be sin.

[masshysteria]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down a second here. Now where can I use my 'gazintas'?

[Rivet]

Pat

Only a real nerd (like Rico :twisted: ) can give you the whole mathmatics garbage behind it all, but for this dummy, here's the easy way to do it. I'll use the Bennies Brook example above.

Elevation Change (1150 feet) / Distance in feet (3168 feet = 5280 x .6) = .36300 . Multiply that by 100 to get % grade. or 36%



For a quick approximation, you can just multiply the slope fraction by 60 to get degrees.

0.363 * 60 = 21.8 degrees

This works for angles up to about 30 degrees. You will only be off by a couple degrees.

[hawk]

I backpack to get away from math!!!

[Mavs00]

I backpack to get away from math!!!

Me too, but slide climbing ain't backpacking. IMO (and trust me here, math ain't my thing). It's pretty important that you have a basic understanding of calculating GRADE and SLOPE when planning a trip up a some out of the way, undocumented slide.

For instance: Lets assume your sitting on this mountain and gazing out, you see -THIS- (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/gallery/colvin/200207302059510_G) . Your first thought SHOULD be (if you inherited the right genes) "ohhhh, I gotta climb it". You know which mountain your looking at, so you go home and start planning. After downloading some satellite images, cross overlying topo and waypoint data you would learn that the the slide starts at about 2870' and terminates at 4350' (1470 feet) and that it is .55 miles long.

With that data, you "do the math" and determine that the Grade is 50% and the slope is 26.2 degrees. Now you have, instead of some arbitrary "boy, that looks steep", you have concrete info that will help you make SAFE and RESPONSIBLE determinations about how to prepare, Things like; how it measures (in steepness) with others you've done, the equipment you may need, or even if you should attempt it at all, given your abilities.

In this case (Nippletop Slide), I knew, before I left my house that at an average slope of >27 degrees............ I'd done much steeper without problem, that I would probably not need ropes (or other technical gear), and that I would likely be comfortable doing it solo. When I got there and did it, I was right on all counts. It's not fool proof, but it can arm you with information that can be crucial for keeping you in situations that are within your ability and experience.

This is slide climbing, not backpacking. The only math I do for backpacking is addition and subtraction. I subtract gear from my pack and add it to Everest's ;)

[pete_hickey]

I look for math problems in the mountains. They frequently involve triangles, but sine waves are common as well. Limits and integrals pop up all over the place as well.

Remember granularity, however. Consider a staircase. From top to bottom, it might be 45 degrees, however it isn't the same as a smooth 45 degree slope.

Or, consider this. A with 40 steps, each step 1 foot high and 1 foot wide. Is that the same as a staircase of 10 steps 4 feet high and 4 feet wide?

What about climbing a staircase of where each step is 1 foot wide, and 2 feet high. Still very easy compared to a slope of equivilant angle.

Slope is just a point of data to work with. Coming up to a 20 foot cliff which does not show on a map, is another. :)

In my case, I prefer not to find out too much before hand. I prefer the surprise/adventure of finding out on the spot.

[hawk]

Well, I don't do slides and I don't do any kind of uphill grade if I can avoid it because of my breathing difficulties.

In fact, I have several "Hawk Hikes". They are level and downhill with very moderate, if any uphill.

[pete_hickey]

...l "Hawk Hikes". They are level and downhill with very moderate, if any uphill.

I've been commuting by bicycle (year round) for 27 years. When people question me about it, I tell them that it is easy, because my route is downhill both coming and going.

"How can that be?" many say.

"I take a different route on my way home." I say.

It's amazing how many people are satisfied with that answer.

[Neil]

I used to tell my kids I had to walk 5 miles to get to school and back home in raging blizzards, uphill, both ways. They never believed it.

[Gandalf]

I've been commuting by bicycle (year round) for 27 years. When people question me about it, I tell them that it is easy, because my route is downhill both coming and going.

"How can that be?" many say.

"I take a different route on my way home." I say.

It's amazing how many people are satisfied with that answer.

When I was working in a bookstore in Lake Placid, a tourist couple once asked me a few questions about walking around Mirror Lake. Their final question was, "which way is faster?"

Darndest thing I'd ever heard, working in retail! :drop: