Something Odd About BL - Graham...

[mountainmeijin]

So I was looking at Balsam Lake and Graham on my 2005 NY-NJ map and I noticed some sort of anomaly with the topographic lines in that area. It's a bit hard to explain but here goes:

1. Starting at the intersection of the Dry Brook Ridge trail and the old jeep road to Graham, if you count topographic lines to Graham the old road slowly descends 100' then reclimbs up 200' to the 3500' contour line before heading to the summit. This places the junction of the jeep road and the trail at 3,400'.

2. Going the other way however, with 3400' as a benchmark, you would climb 200' before reaching the 3500' mark on Balsam Lake, which has the correct summit elevation but appears to have had 100' added somehow.

3. However, if you count topographic lines on any side of Balsam Lake Mountain except along the col to the east, you find 5 lines between the 3,000' and 3,500' marks, which is, of course expected. Furthermore, by this count the junction is at 3,300' instead of 3,400'.

4. For Graham, all sides show only 4 lines between the 3,000' and 3,500' marks, which seems to give the illusion of 100' having been added to Balsam Lake when you measure from an east-to-west direction, even though Graham has the correct summit elevation.

Something went haywire somewhere. Anyone else noticed this?

[MattC]

2005 must have been the M.C. Escher edition.

Matt

[Rockledge]

Rainy day and way too much time on your hands? :D

I just pulled out my 2001 addition and if I'm following your explanation correctly I would say the same anomaly existed in 2001. There appears to be a missing contour interval between 3000' and 3500' in the area encircling Graham. Counting intervals to BL seems to work properly but there is certainly an apparent discrepancy when working between Graham and BL. I'll be damned if I can find where the "error" exists though. I'd have to agree with Matt on this one. There is some optical illusion at work here.

By looking at my map I would place the junction of the Dry Brook Ridge trail and the old road to Graham at between 3300 and 3400 feet.

Look on the bright side-upon reaching 3000' you only have to climb 400' to gain the 3500' mark on Graham. :rolleyes: :)

[Mark Schaefer]

2005 must have been the M.C. Escher edition. Good one. And there is a history of that sort of thing in the Catskills. There formerly was an old roadside attraction on NY Route 32 south of Cairo called the Mystery Spot. Its claim to fame was that water ran up hill. Of course it was just an optical illusion as in an M.C. Escher print.

I see the BL/Graham problem. It is an error on Map #42 (Central Catskills) only. Map #43 is (Southern Catskills) is correct. The 3400 contour line of Graham is missing on map #42. That led to your confusion, Peter.

It is an old error that goes back at least as far as the 1987 (3rd edition), which is the oldest set of the NY/NJ TC maps that I own. I suspect it dates all the way back to the first edition.

The old road / trail intersection is at 3300'. The two higher, isolated 3400 contours below and east of it are the unmarked summits of West and East Schoolhouse Mountains.

I see Bill found this also.

[mountainmeijin]

Thanks, Mark. I suspected that an interval must have gone missing somewhere. I wonder if the NY-NJ folks are aware of the error?

I was gonna hike those two today, but I decided to let the trails dry out and the wind die down a bit. I'll bet the flat section of the DBR Trail up to the junction is a lake...

[Mark Schaefer]

I wonder if the NY-NJ folks are aware of the error? Probably not since the error has been propagated through at least six editions of the map. I will send an email to Dan Chazin at the Trail Conference with a link to this thread. He is the Conference's liaison to the 3500 club and fields questions/comments on the Catskill maps.

I also looked back at the earlier Catskill trail maps published by "Walking News" (an early publishing name used by the NY/NJ TC) to see if they had the same missing contour problem on Graham. The short answer is no, but they had a different error: the 3300' contour on Graham is mislabeled 3200'. Perhaps there is some correlation in the two different errors.

I was gonna hike those two today, but I decided to let the trails dry out and the wind die down a bit. I'll bet the flat section of the DBR Trail up to the junction is a lake... Probably a good choice. Thankfully the Catskills usually dry out reasonably fast. There are no more heavy rains forecast for the next 10 days. So hopefully the remaining snow melt will be more gradual.

[Mark Schaefer]

I got the following prompt reply from Dan Chazin:

I looked at the thread, and -- without checking -- I would presume that the error goes back to the first edition of the Catskill Trails map set, printed in 1983. These maps were hand drawn by cartographer Ted Koch, who traced the lines from the printed USGS maps. That's how you did this stuff 25 years ago! I guess that he forgot to copy one contour line on one map. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that this error has been brought to our attention. I have sent it to our Trails Director so that it may be included in the Tracking Database and corrected for our next edition -- if such ever is printed.

The Catskill map set is one of only three analog map sets that we still produce. We hope to come out with a digital edition the next time we need to reprint this map set. If so, the entire new map will be produced from electronic sources from scratch. So, most probably, we will never have the occasion to actually make this correction.

You are welcome to post this on the website where the original thread is discussed.

Daniel Chazin
Publications Chair
New York-New Jersey Trail Conference

[mountainmeijin]

Well, better to catch the mistake late than never. I'm looking forward to the new digital maps.

[Rockledge]

Wow, the Mystery Spot. I remember being awed by that place as a young child. You mean the water didn't really run up hill? :cry: ...and I'm going to have to climb that 100' on my next visit to Graham? :cry:

Thanks for clearing this all up Mark, although you've ruined a magical childhood memory. :D

[Jay H]

The Mystery Spot is also a store in Phoenicia that is next to Brios...

http://www.lauralevine.com/mystery-spot/what.php

Jay

[Rob S]

The Mystery Spot is also a store in Phoenicia that is next to Brios...

http://www.lauralevine.com/mystery-spot/what.php

Jay

Gotta love their phone number! :D