MSR customer service

[hillman1]

This company is great. I snapped my frame on my lightning ascents (and didn't get to bag blake colvin ntop and dial)...I skied Avalanche pass instead--but anyway, I called the company, explained my problem, not just the snowshoes, but the time frame in which I need them back for my W quest. They were very helpful, I am sending them 2 day air, and will receive a pair back by 2 day air. Another great customer service story. I need to just get a sponsership, and end my gear dilemma.

[Highonlife]

They are a great company...I asked for some spare straps and told them I didn't want to get stranded, but I would also be happy to pay for them...they just sent me a couple of spares and no charge.

Also my snowshoes broke recently too, said just send them in....

So Kudos to MSR:tup:

[TFR]

I've also been pleased with their service.If anyone needs any MSR spare parts, let me know! :D

[JoeCedar]

I too am pleased with their service, but I have seen more of it than I would like on my Lightning Ascents. I bought them in Dec. 2005 and both crampons were broken completely off in Feb. 2006. The break occurred across the rivets which attach the crampon to the binding. They sent me a brand new pair, and quickly, so how could I complain? Well, this year I was checking them after every hike and last month I saw cracks in the crampon, again across the rivet holes. So I sent them back and got yet another brand new pair last week!

A couple of weeks ago I was telling my story to Highonlife prior to our hike of Street/Nye. I flipped her snowshoes over to show her where the break occurred, and guess what? Hers were broken too in exactly the same place!!!

I am not a heavy or aggressive hiker and Highonlife could blow away in a strong wind, yet this design weakness caused inconvenience (luckily no harm done) for both of us. But to their credit, MSR made it right with a new pair even though it would be easy for them to just supply a new crampon/binding assembly.

I just wish they would admit they have a problem and change the design to eliminate it, which would not be technically difficult.

If you have Lightnings, be sure to look at the front crampon rivets after every hike.

[daxs]

On both this site and VFTT I have read the many praises of MSR customer service. Makes me wonder how good their equipment really is if so many people need to make use of the customer service for replacement parts or to have their snowshoes replaced because of equipment failure.

[Dick]

On both this site and VFTT I have read the many praises of MSR customer service. Makes me wonder how good their equipment really is if so many people need to make use of the customer service for replacement parts or to have their snowshoes replaced because of equipment failure.

Thanks, Carol. This has been in the back of my mind for the last couple of years also, ever since TWO pairs of MSRs failed on the same trip. At the time, I think it was chalked up as a "fluke" by some, or a "bad batch" by others, but the failure reports continue. I'm reconsidering for next winter.

Dick

[randomscooter]

On both this site and VFTT I have read the many praises of MSR customer service. Makes me wonder how good their equipment really is if so many people need to make use of the customer service for replacement parts or to have their snowshoes replaced because of equipment failure.

As much as I like my MSRs, and as responsive as MSR service has been, I have to agree. Not to single out MSR... in my experience (limited to MSR, Sherpa, and Tubbs) they ALL break more often than seems justified. However, I'd have to say the frequency of failure is noticeably higher with MSR. One regular contributor to this forum has solved the problem by purchasing a new pair of MSRs each season, I believe during end of season clearances. Each pair is marked with the year. The new ones go on the longer trips, the old ones are used for short trips, lousy conditions, and spare parts. Sounds extreme, but effective.

[daxs]

When I looked for snowshoes, I tried and actually did not like the MSR's. I have a pair of Tubbs. Not used real hard, a few times each winter season, but have not had a problem with them. I could not afford to go out and buy a new pair of snowshoes every year.

[TFR]

When I looked for snowshoes, I tried and actually did not like the MSR's. I have a pair of Tubbs. Not used real hard, a few times each winter season, but have not had a problem with them. I could not afford to go out and buy a new pair of snowshoes every year.I've put about 200 miles on my most recent pair. They are still in good condition. I do check them often, because I have had various failures with MSRs, but I still love the way they perform.

[AlpineSummit]

As much as I like my MSRs, and as responsive as MSR service has been, I have to agree. Not to single out MSR... in my experience (limited to MSR, Sherpa, and Tubbs) they ALL break more often than seems justified. However, I'd have to say the frequency of failure is noticeably higher with MSR. One regular contributor to this forum has solved the problem by purchasing a new pair of MSRs each season, I believe during end of season clearances. Each pair is marked with the year. The new ones go on the longer trips, the old ones are used for short trips, lousy conditions, and spare parts. Sounds extreme, but effective.

Yea, it does sound extreme - but also dang smart.
Nobody wants to be halfway to Couchee and have a s.shoe break.
Talk about being up the creek.

One more vote here for MSR cust serv. Actually, two. For my water filter and my s.shoes. They're on the ball for sure.

[lumberzac]

Just to play devils advocate here, but there might be more reports of this do to a higher number of people that use MSR’s vs other brands. The percentage of failure between companies might be the same, but if MSR has a higher number of uses the number of failures would also be higher. Please note that this is pure speculation and I have no hard number to back this up.

[Neil]

It's also possible that the conditions in the NE beat the crap out of snowshoes. They sure beat the crap out of me.

[hillman1]

I also attribute it to the fact that the folks reporting these failures are members of this site, and are out using the products on a daily basis. I would guesstimate that most snowshoers are more of a recreational type that aren't marching up thousands of feet of vertical on a weekly basis. I love the performance of the lightning ascents, and will continue to use them. I might try a pair of the atlas 1225's for next season though. I have to admit, I am thouroughly addicted to the heel lift, and will never be without it.

[LionRoar]

In 2000, at the recommendation of my cousin in MA, I bought a pair of MSR Denali Ascents (gray) I used them lightly that year - we had five feet of new March snow in the Cats that week and the following year.

I moved to the Adirondacks in 2001 and found myself on snowshoes two - three days per week (I worked three days). I was using a pair of Vasque Alpine boots when I noticed that the metal soleplate showed partial separation on one shoe and crack on the other. I then bought another pair of snowshoes from a local manufacturer, which lasted me several seasons. Last Fall, I decided to fix the MSR's and sent them to Cascade Designs, parent company of MSR. They were five years out of warranty and I paid $30 + $5 shipping and free return shipping.

I couldn't wait to use them this year...but, I also had a new pair of locally manufactured snowshoes, so I used those, instead. Then, about ten days ago on a hike in the Catskills, the heel strap pulled out of both shoes; it became annoying to stop and adjust it. I spoke with the manufacturer who asked me to bring the shoes in for evaluation. She said that nobody had complained about the strap pulling out. Great, that's what I will do.

For my upcoming Catskill hike, I went through the bins, searching for my MSR shoes....I can't find them!!! I'm thinking that maybe I left them in my other house - boohoo! :cry: does that mean I hike tomorrow with a third pair of useless snowshoes?

LR

[Jay H]

I agree with Hillman1, there seems to be a lot of MSR snowshoe users out there so statistically, you'll hear a lot of failures.

Elie, 3 of us did Thomas Cole, Black dome as a car spot hike and I used crampons all day. Didn't really need snowshoes although the descent off of Lockwood Gap I could of switched, I knew it wasn't a long descent and managed to follow the herd... Fortunately, sunday was mostly cloudy so the sun didn't come out and the temps were just above freezing, unlike the 48degs on Saturday.

I have a beat up pair of Sherpa Climbers but I just got a pair of Northern Lite Elite 25s and they are holding up fine, so far. I wish the crampon was a little more agressive, but I'm still getting used to them. I am just used to using my Sherpas which have awesome grip, enough so that I usually just walk with them, especially on the downhill, the NLs I have to remember to plunge the crampon in, les I go skiing with my lightweight body.


(p.s. 5 more CAT102 peaks done... 91 down! :) )

Jay

[LionRoar]

I own two pairs of Havlick snowshoes - now, why I'm discussing this on the MSR page is beyond me, but there seems to be no Havlick one. Both pairs are 30 inches long, for breaking trail. One has a cam lock binding and the other has a strap binding. Each pair has eighth inch thick aluminum crampons - front and back of sole plate and back of the heel plate and heavy-duty vinyl decking.

What I like about them are that they are made to withstand rough usage. The crampons are strong and aggressive and will dig into most anything. For years all I used were snowshoe crampons to cross ice patches.

What I don't like will be address by shoe. The cam lock binding was on the Whiteface model shoe. It works far better with a rigid boot than a flexible one; with the latter, over tightening the camming action can lead to blood constriction in the foot. The heel strap was made with a thinner gauge nylon and had the tendency to pull out. I once lent said shoes to a friend who was hiking Algonquin and Iroquois. he raved about the agressive crampons, but, like all soft metals, the crampons were worn down, considerably, due to their walking across snow covered rock. (Moral: don't lend treasured snowshoes to just anyone)

The Adirondack model has a different binding. It's all straps and where the cam-lock failed, these work. I have used a variety of hiking boots with these, including Barlow's and Merrill winter boots; unfortunately, I could not use my Vasque Alpine boots as I inadvertently left car door unlocked - in Madhattan - and my car was cleaned out by local vultures. The Adirondack uses a thicker webbing on the back, enabling the heel strap to slip less. Jan of Havlick says that they're not supposed to slip, but, my experience on Wadham's High Point was less than ideal, with the left shoe loosening every fifty steps or so and the right one holding a lot longer. But, the price is right - $139 - and service is local, vs some unknown manufacturerer that has a factory in China and a small facility in TX...

I'm like to support locally made products; Havlick makes several different sizes and weights (and colors) of snowshoes.

I have to get my snowshoes fixed for the weekend, cause I'm dragging a group up Leavitt Pk next Sunday. They're all faster than me; maybe i'll lead from the parking lot - just point to the summit and send them on their way.

Or, maybe like Jay, all I really need are crampons; where are those four-pointers? [Can Yax work?]

The link:

http://www.havlicksnowshoe.com/

LR

[Kerry]

So the first pair of Lightning Ascents snapped on my had-to-be-aborted Street and Nye hike in late January. EMS replaced them the same day. I used them 11 times. Yesterday I noticed that they had snapped in the same place. Now to be fair that was 23 peaks and I did make it through the Winter 46, but I'm not very big and mostly I've been in powder. Another pair is being shipped as I write and should be here later in the week--but I am snowshoeless until then. I guess I feel this is a fairly significant design flaw that should probably be rethought.

[daLunartik]

So the first pair of Lightning Ascents snapped on my had-to-be-aborted Street and Nye hike in late January. EMS replaced them the same day. I used them 11 times. Yesterday I noticed that they had snapped in the same place. Now to be fair that was 23 peaks and I did make it through the Winter 46, but I'm not very big and mostly I've been in powder. Another pair is being shipped as I write and should be here later in the week--but I am snowshoeless until then. I guess I feel this is a fairly significant design flaw that should probably be rethought.
Where about on the frame did the break occur? Just so I know where I should be paying attention to mine.

[hillman1]

They are not replacing my snowshoes for free, they are offering a deep discount. I was told that mine were not broke during normal usage. I told them it was a hike of marcy and grey, and they could look at this site for the trip report. They then told me that they have beat the lightning ascents with a metal pipe and they didn't break. I replied that I broke them hiking, not with a metal pipe. I am going back to Atlas 1225's for next season. My lightning ascents aren't even 2 months old, and have only been on about 10 hikes. Not very good quality if you ask me, and having to pay to replace them downright sucks.

[Neil]

Thanks, Carol. This has been in the back of my mind for the last couple of years also, ever since TWO pairs of MSRs failed on the same trip. At the time, I think it was chalked up as a "fluke" by some, or a "bad batch" by others, but the failure reports continue. I'm reconsidering for next winter.

Dick
Dick, THESE (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33015&postcount=13) are the MSR's you are referring to and I emailed that picture to the company and received a reply to the effect that only a certain percentage of their snowshoes failed like that and that it had to be a low probability coincidence for 2 brand new pairs to break in that manner on the same trip.

Doug, I think something isn't quite right with MSR not refunding you fully. I think that all of our members should take heed of your negative experience.

Perhaps it would be a good public service to share your experience by linking this thread for the 5000 members on VFTT and ADKForum. In addition, how many members does Summitpost.com have? Close to 10,000 if I remember correctly.

[hillman1]

They actually told me they read this thread at the company. I mentioned the fact that a few other folks I know have thier decks in for warranty right now. They replied that it is usually a binding issue, and that is covered by warranty.
Anyway, I am now officially avoiding msr. I bought replacement evo ascents from them for 120, but it is only because I want to salvage what is left of this W season. I have 4 days left of hiking before the 21st.
I don't see how my shoes are not considered normal use. Don't they consider climbing mountains normal use for thier lightning ascents? Anyway, maybe they need to invent an Adirondack version of thier snowshoe, apparently the northeast is beating the crap out of thier warranty department.
Anyway, they are reading this forum out at cascade designs, and reading what people have to say about thier product, I have to admit, the few hikes the lightnings made it on went well. Extremely well. I loved the performance. I just wish they would have lasted a bit longer. I have 2 pairs of atlas(1025, and 830) that have withstood numerous seasons of hiking, and the 830's were warrantied for free after 4 seasons when the rivets needed replacements.
I won't even bring up how poorly the whisperlite intl works in the adirondacks in the middle of november. Remember that one Neil??? I switched out to a Primus himalaya after that trip.

[JoeCedar]

So the first pair of Lightning Ascents snapped on my had-to-be-aborted Street and Nye hike in late January. EMS replaced them the same day. I used them 11 times. Yesterday I noticed that they had snapped in the same place. Now to be fair that was 23 peaks and I did make it through the Winter 46, but I'm not very big and mostly I've been in powder. Another pair is being shipped as I write and should be here later in the week--but I am snowshoeless until then. I guess I feel this is a fairly significant design flaw that should probably be rethought.

For a description of the breaks I experienced, see posting #5 in this string. It occurs across the rivets on the crampon. Was yours broken here too? I think the breakage occurs going downhill on icy terrain, but I'm not sure.

[mudhook]

WHen we go light weight, we sacrifice strength and durability for speed and mobility, its a trade we all make; steel vs al., wool vs fleece, plastic vs wood and so on. Nothing light weight in our price ranges will standup to the abuse that the heavy stuff will.
My Denalis broke just like the the ones in the picture, replaced at cost because they were over 5 years old . They had lot of hard, catskill miles on them ; less snow than the adks, more rocks,stumps sticks,to deal with. I still own 2 pairs of MSR,( as well as a couple pair of heavier ones) and expect them to fail sooner or later, but haven't found anything that works as well all around at that weight to replace them with.

[bignslow]

For those that are interested in MSRs (or spares :D ) they are the EMS "extreme" deal of the day today with the Denali ascents for $99 (MSRP $179)
*I'm not affiliated with EMS in any way, I just bought a pair for my wife*

[Willie]

The MSR warranty states, in part:

Limited Lifetime Warranty
MSR Snowshoes are guaranteed against defects in materials and workmanship without time limit.

* * *

Except as provided herein, MSR makes no warranties, express or implied including but not limited to the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

Like other warranties, nothing is covered under the warranty unless the manufacturer says it's covered. It's a business decision. Sure, manufacturers are willing to make minor repairs to make customers happy, but replacement due to an alleged design or manufacturing defect is another story. If the manufacturer decides the defect is not covered because of "abnormal use," what are you going to do about? Sue them? Hire a metallurgist to prove the defect is a design or manufacturing defect? Economically, it's not worth it, and manufacturers know that. But then again, that's one reason why class actions are available.

I apologize for my jaded commentary.

[Kerry]

Both of my pairs snapped at the pivot point where the metal foot plate with the crampon comes to rest against two elevated metal strips where the binding is attached. I have used this pair almost entirely in powder (no bushwhacking, no rocks, almost no ice--except on the summit of Marcy-- and I butt slide when applicable:) and both pairs snapped when I was on fairly level ground. I am 5'1" and with my full pack weigh under 150 (shoes are rated to 225). EMS has been very nice about replacing them. The first time, the manager said the break was really rare and he expressed surprise that someone my size could have accomplished this feat in so little time. The second time, I was told that when the L.A. fail, it is in this place. I am thinking that in the intervening 6 weeks more and more failures have been appearing. I consider what I have been doing to be "normal" use--as the EMS supervior noted "The Adirondacks aren't Everest". The decking and frames are barely worn. So to MSR if you really are reading this thread--These are great snowshoes for the Adirondacks--light on my feet and on my pack with great traction both ascending and descending and the women's model which is narrower gives me sufficient flotation while keeping me from tripping over myself which sometimes happens with wider shoes. And we all love the heel lift. FIX THE FLAW--the crampon shouldn't snap in half (note: this is also dangerous, the first time I pitched forward and almost went head first into a tree)--and back your product--Hilman hiked about the same amount I did in his snowshoes (not even 1/2 season).

[hillman1]

I bought my lightning ascents 2 hikes after the sewards that day I met you. I decided to get them after hiking marshall and then wolfjaws & armstrong with Nancy. So between you, myself, and Nancy, we all had failures this season. They determined my failure was beyond what the snowshoes were designed for. I still like the fact that they stated they beat the frames with a metal pipe. Maybe they should have tried hiking in them...

[bubba]

So to MSR if you really are reading this thread--
It would be nice for you to respond. I was thinking I needed to buy a pair and I'm having second thoughts about now.

[Kerry]

These are MSR's highest end snowshoes (I think). The flaw is wear and stress related (not terrain or abuse related). The elevated metal piece hits the weakest point of the crampon with every step. It doesn't take many steps to snap it. I would be interested to know what MSR intended these shoes to be used for. Maybe they need to come with a mileage rating (i.e. prone to failure after 100 miles). And hitting them with a pipe won't replicate the problem. The frames, bindings and decking on mine are all in nearly new condition. Consider too that renting snowshoes runs about $20/day. The L.A. retail for $259. If they break after 10 hikes....

[arm]

EMS used to be great about replacing equipment

i brought my petzl headlamp back to EMS a few weeks ago, after it stopped working ... figured they'd replace or repair it

they brought it out back for a while, ran it through some tests, before determining that it no longer worked ... glad they did, because i wasn't sure if it worked or not ... good thing they had a team of rocket scientists on hand that afternoon, or i'd still be walking around with that annoying question mark floating over my head

they offered me $9 cash for it, claiming the headlamp had lost value since i had bought it last summer (for $65) ... thanks but no thanks

i showed them my julbo glacier glasses, which had lost a lens over the Winter, asking if they offered lenses for sale ... they shrugged me off

emailed petzl and julbo through their websites, and each offered to replace their products free !

thumbs up for petzl and julbo :tup:

[Jay H]

My old Petzl Tikka is falling apart but I haven't even bothered to contact Petzl. I know when I needed new straps for my old Charlet Mozer instep crampons (owned by Petzl), they were great but my Tikka has lost the plastic lenscover and the old-style switch is flaky now.

I've never returned anything to EMS, frankly, I hardly ever go there or buy anything from them. They are next door to Campmor.... ;)

they offered me $9 cash for it, claiming the headlamp had lost value since i had bought it last summer (for $65) ... thanks but no thanks

You should of autographed it and said because of your signature, the headlamp is now worth US$6.5 million :D

Jay