Starry night above Kaaterskill Clove

[Deb]

Harding Road Trail to the cliffs

This was another quick overnight trip after work. I started up the trail from the DEC area on 23A at 5 pm. In one mile I reached the trail register, a hitching post and a small fireplace. I decided to explore the unmarked, well-traveled path off to the right, which went steeply uphill.
I was really looking for a flat camping spot. I had no idea where the path went. After 15 minutes of huffing and puffing straight uphill I came to the base of spectacular cliffs, some sheer, some jagged. Most of the rock was bluestone, but some of it wasn't sedimentary, being some kind of hard smooth black rock and some of it was even contoured by wind and water.
These cliffs were from 60-80 feet high and extended in an unbroken wall for 200 or so yards to the east. I explored, but couldn't find a way up in that direction, so retraced my steps and finally found a route.
On top the views were amazing, straight down into Kaaterskill Clove, overlooking the Fawn's Leap area where a payloader was just finishing up for the night. Some houses tucked up in Twilight Park were at eye level.
Just steps away was a view back over the Hudson River. I could see Inbrocht Bay, just south of Catskill, and I could see the lights of the Kingston-Rhinecliff Bridge.
There was a lot of lichen growing on the rocks, plus some stuff that looked like petrified moss, all of which I avoided.
There were three campsites with rock rings, two in the trees and one on the ledge, all of which looked disused. There wasn't any litter of any kind.
I camped on the ledge site in the grass, 20 feet from a sheer drop.
It never got below 45 degrees so I just used the mesh fly. It was windy.
A moonless night. All the stars were out.
This is a rare time to enjoy the clove without the sounds of traffic rumbling up from below.
Anyone know the name of these cliffs? I bet they are a destination for climbers. Any other way to get there?

[Mark Schaefer]

I have never taken that unmarked path that you mention, but I will need to now. I believe you arrived at one of these (elevations are the cliff tops): Palenville Overlook, actually two overlooks at 1760' and 1800'. Two east-west aligned cliffs.
Profile Rock (a.k.a. Indian Head and Point of Rocks) at 1820'. This is more of a protrusion which to the west looks out over the Gulf with a direct view to Twilight Park, and on the east back to Palenville. edit. Just reread the description of your campsite, and I am sure you were at the Profile Rock.

Each of these cliffs has a view of the other, and there is an unmarked path (about 0.3 mile) that connects the two from the picnic table at the southern end of the loop on the Horse and Snowmobile trail. The best trail depiction of these two features is in Catskill Mountain House Trail Guide (http://www.amazon.com/Catskill-Mountain-House-Trail-Guide/dp/1883789451/sr=1-1/qid=1159287195/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8682559-7896917), by Robert A. Gildersleeve, page 102. The author used GPS to mark locations so I am confident of his mapped locations and elevations. They agree with my own non-GPS visual observations from visiting these cliff tops many times. I have never hiked up from the base of the cliffs.

Note: NY/NJ map #40 incorrectly locates the Palenville Overlook at about 2000'. That spot is in fact where an upper portion of the horse trail makes a sharp turn. It is possible to bushwhack down from that point to the upper Palenville Overlook, or you can take the horse trail spur which is shown on the map. The general trail route is OK on the map, but the trail elevations are 100-200' lower.

Cline / Forge Quarry Road, unmarked path description (about 40 minutes climb from Palenville):

There is another way to reach the cliff tops from Palenville. It is shown on an old historic map on pages 20-21 of the above Gildersleeve guidebook, but a better depiction is in The Catskill Mountain House (http://www.amazon.com/Catskill-Mountain-House-Roland-Zandt/dp/0962852368/sr=1-1/qid=1159287286/ref=sr_1_1/102-8682559-7896917) by Roland Van Zandt, map 8, page 108. Neither map is drawn to scale, but they are helpful in planning.

From the junction of the Harding Road (Long Path, red) and the Whites Road connecting trail (yellow). Head up the yellow trail for just a few yards to a junction. Take the left fork up an unmarked quarry road, it briefly passes through a short private section, but at this point it is a public road providing access to two small private land inholdings. Take a left turn at the ruins of an old house and take every left fork from here on up. I have heard that a house is being built in one of the two inholdings, but the road passes by on public land. Above the inholdings the road climbs to the first of two quarries Cline, Q821 per Michael Kudish, and then Forge, Q823. The road briefly enters private land as it nears the first of three switchbacks. The private land is not marked nor posted, however, the boundary has been blazed with yellow paint by the DEC. Above the switchback it reenters state land for the duration of the climb. I have inquired many time from locals, the DEC, and local police as to who owns this and is OK to hike there. I have been repeatedly told that the owner does not want to be bothered with inquires, and that they are OK with hiking provided you stay on the road. That has always been good enough for me. In fact you would be hard pressed to leave the road as there are steep cliffs on both sides of the road through most of this area. There are remarkable stone retaining walls above here on the down slope side of the road, some have collapsed, but it is still an easy hike up. There are frequent blowdowns, but nothing that hampers your progress as the road is well travelled by local hikers. Through this section there are many smooth faced cliff sections similar to what you observed, which also appear not to be sedimentary. But I assure you they are, and if one were to clean away the black moldy residue from centuries of moisture and other weathering you would expose the strata layers that are characteristic of bluestone.

After the third and final switchback the views finally open up as you approach the lower Palenville Overlook. The road here resembles a slanted climbing sidewalk. There is a junction with another road which forks right and climbs up to the horse trail. But the best views are straight ahead at the ruins of the Dodd (a.k.a. Halfway) House, a boarding house owned by the former Catskill Mountain House. There are three rock chairs for your resting and viewing pleasure. The upper portion of the Palenville Overlook can be reached from paths above the ruins. There is a fireplace and picnic table. The upper view is to the left. The horse trail goes to the right. The unmarked path to the Profile / Indian Head rock viewpoint is straight ahead (0.3 miles to the view).

[MattC]

I really need to explore that area much, much more. Mark, would you say the Gildersleeve is about the best resource for all the old, unmarked trails, roads, etc. in the area?

Matt

[Mark Schaefer]

IMO the above book by Gildersleeve book is the best current trail guide for the old trails and paths in the North/South Lake and Kaaterskill Clove areas. The Catskill Day Hikes (http://www.adk.org/new_store/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=CDH) also has some nice hikes, but sticks primarily to the marked trails.

The The Mountain Top Historical Society (http://www.mths.org/index.shtml) website has: an excerpt of the Van Loan's Catskill Mountain Guide (http://www.mths.org/maps-trails/vanloanwalks.html), 1882, a nice historical cross reference.
a 1883 Van Loan map (http://www.mths.org/maps-trails/vanloan83_full_map.jpg). The map shows the road I recommended above and the Cline and Forge quarries.
a list of Landmarks (http://www.mths.org/landmarks/index.html), most in the North/South Lake area.
The MTHS also publishes an interesting history book (not a trail guide) Kaaterskill: From the Catskill Mountain House to the Hudson River School (http://www.amazon.com/Kaaterskill-Catskill-Mountain-Hudson-School/dp/0962852384/sr=1-2/qid=1159294172/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-8682559-7896917).

[TFR]

There were three campsites with rock rings, two in the trees and one on the ledge, all of which looked disused. There wasn't any litter of any kind. I camped on the ledge site in the grass, 20 feet from a sheer drop.
It never got below 45 degrees so I just used the mesh fly. It was windy.
A moonless night. All the stars were out. This is a rare time to enjoy the clove without the sounds of traffic rumbling up from below.Wow! That sounds nice!

[MattC]

This is a rare time to enjoy the clove without the sounds of traffic rumbling up from below.

Hmm, why didn't I think of that? That is an excellent thing to point out. I believe a backpack in that vicinity is in order sometime before the road is fixed.

Matt

[Mark Schaefer]

Some info on alternative, marked trail approaches to the Palenville Overlook and Profile Rock:

Hike #17 in the 3rd edition of the ADK Catskill Trails guidebook describes the Sleepy Hollow horse trail. The first 3.9 miles of this hike follows the old Mountain Turnpike which was the original road up to the Catskill Mountain House. It can be challenging, but not impossible to find a parking spot at the trailhead (very narrow road shoulders). There is a "horse trail" parking area on Bogart Road, south of the Mountain Turnpike intersection, but then you have a long road walk (or horse ride) on the paved roads to the trailhead. 3.9 miles up the Sleepy Hollow horse trail is a sharp left turn onto another horse trail along the escarpment which leads to the Palenville Overlook. It is easy to miss the left turn on the way up. If you reach North Lake State Park and the Catskill Mountain house site, you will know you have gone too far. You have less trouble spotting the side trail on the return down, or take the more interesting descent down the Otis Elevating railroad cut. From the railroad cut you should easily see the intersecting horse trail to the Palenville Overlook. The ADK guidebook omits mention of the path to Profile Rock as it is not marked. The trail description also continues on up to the Harding Road / Long Path intersection - which would be another viable approach from Palenville, North/South Lake, or Schutt Road.

The Catskill Mountain House Trail Guide book by Robert Gildersleeve describes a route starting from North Lake, down the Sleepy Hollow horse trail and then across the intersecting horse trail along the escarpment to the Palenville Overlook and the Profile Rock. As I said above it has a very accurate trail map.

[Deb]

Thank you, Mark, for your in-depth reply.
Now I'm sure it was Profile Rocks.
Thought a path might lead from the top of the cliffs up to the Sleepy Hollow Horse Trail, but wasn't sure.
I have three Catskill guide books, but none of them mentioned Profile Rocks.
I'll have to buy that book by Gildersleeve, something I've been meaning to do.
Last spring I met a hiker in the Mountain House area who raved about the book and was out to track down some old vistas and natural features.

The next time I hike in the Palenville area I'll try the Cline/Forge Quarry Rd. I'd like to find the site of that half-way house; I never heard of it. The road that leads from the back of the DEC parking lot off 23A has been 'improved' recently (it's a mess) and bears the signs of heavy traffic, so that's consistent with a new house being built up there.
Your directions are excellent, and I'll take a look at the links.
The area is just a maze of old roads and history.

[Mark Schaefer]

The Catskill Mountain Guide (AMC) (http://www.amazon.com/Catskill-Mountain-Guide-Appalachian-Club/dp/1929173164/sr=1-1/qid=1159374511/ref=sr_1_1/102-8682559-7896917), by Peter Kick, page 26, Sleepy Hollow Horse Trail description, mentions the foundation of the Halfway House (summer boarding house) on a short unmarked path from the lower part of the horse trail loop. Roland Van Zandt's book, The Catskill Mountain House, page 123, mentions High Rock (Palenville Overlook), and that "This overlook always marked the southeastern-most point of the 3000-acre domain of the Catskill Mountain House." It does not mention the boarding house though. Perhaps Halfway was a nickname. If one were to have journeyed from Palenville to the Catskill Mountain House via the Cline/Forge quarry road and then continue on the old road (horse trail) to the Mountain Turnpike, then this location would indeed be halfway. Also there used to be a sign for "Halfway House Lookout" at the horse trail junction one half mile north of the Palenville Overlook. That sign was mentioned in the now out-of-print Fifty Hikes in the Hudson Valley by Peter Kick and Barbara McMartin, in the description of hike #27, Old Mountain Road to Palenville Overlook. The current junction signs (one at each of the two loop ends) read "Palenville Overlook" rather than "Halfway House Lookout". There is also currently a "Palenville Overlook" sign near the fireplace (and sometimes a picnic table) at the upper end of the horse trail spur loop. That signed path leads to the upper of the two Palenville Overlook cliffs. The ruins of the Halfway (or Dodd) house are at the lower cliff, and a bit east off the horse trail loop.

The Gildersleeve book does provide some history on the building, which he calls the Dodd House, page 105:
Shortly after the Civil War, Elizabeth Adkins (possibly spelled Atkins) and her brother Thomas Dodd, built a house for about thirty guests on these cliffs. It was constructed for $10,000. The road up to it from Palenville (which may have followed a quarry road) was built for another $3,000). Most of that road still exists, but is difficult to follow. From here to the valley, it goes past two bluestone quarries and ends up at the White Road parking area. The boarding house was never successful and apparently operated for only a few years. It was said that guests found the house too windy. (The building had to be moored against the strong winds).
Gildersleeve does not mention an ownership connection to the Catskill Mountain House. Perhaps it was built by Atkins and Dodd, and after it failed the land was purchased by the Catskill Mountain house.

I would just add, that despite Gildersleeve's caution, I have always found the quarry road easy to follow, even the first time that I climbed it, using just the old maps in various books. There are several side trails, but you want to stay on the main path. The recent house construction may have altered that advice a bit -- I haven't been up since last October. Just keep taking the left forks and you should have no trouble. The blowdowns are generally the step-over log variety, many dating from the 1979 double whammy of Hurricanes Douglas and Frederick within a one week span. The Harding Road trailhead on 23A is the slightly shorter approach versus Whites Road trailhead. In case you can't tell. I love these overlooks. I have been there perhaps 50 times, from all directions. The quarry road is the shortest, and by far the most interesting approach - but all are worth exploring.

[Deb]

OK!
Time to get more in-depth.
The local bookstore didn't have Gildersleeve's book, but I ordered a copy from the Mid-Hudson Library system. After looking it over for two days, this is a must-have for me...
I was aware the Kaaterskill Clove area was intricate, but I only knew the most basic things...this is a really good book.
I also picked up a copy of Van Loan's 'Catskill Mountain Guide, 1879 with Bird's-Eye View Maps.'
The three fold-out maps alone are worth the price.

Looking at Van Loan's 'Map of all points of interest within four miles of the Catskill Mountain House with roads and footpaths' I thought "Hey, where's the Hotel Kaaterskill?" But of course that didn't come along until 1881.
This map blows me away!

Between these two books I could spend a long, long time exploring the area.