View Full Version : Toughest Mountain Range
1ADAM12
08-29-2006, 07:43 AM
In your opinion what range did you find tougher? Sewards, Dixes, or Santas.
I found the SANTAS to be tougher :eek: I hurt my knee pretty bad descending Couch and was unable to get Sant. It doesn't hurt my feeling any though because I had no views the day I was there. I am looking forward to seeing the great views from Sant that I have been hearing so much about :tup:
Adam
Sawtooths. :tup:
That's an unlevel playing field. Imagine if there were horde trails in the Sawtooths. (or Sentinels). :)
AlpineSummit
08-29-2006, 09:31 AM
I voted Dixes, only cuz they're 5 of 'em.
The Santa's only have one difficult peak and that is Couchee.
The Seward's have only one also - Seward itself - altho Emmons is no gimme.
Hands down - the Dixes.
timmus
08-29-2006, 09:33 AM
The Dixes have many trails and Slides going up, it can be done in various ways, and with several day-hikes. The views ease the pain.
The Santanoni's ? I did it in winter, and it was charming (trails were broken).
The Sewards I found the toughest, because the herd paths are very eroded, there's crazy mud holes, and the walk on the truck road is a killer when you are coming back from Seymour.
I can't wait to do them in winter, with broken trails. Dec 21st, anyone ??
the Gasherbrum Range can be a tough solo day hike
http://www.summitpost.org/object_list.php?object_type=1&object_name_1=Gasherbrum
are you including Seymour with the Sewards ?
Boreal Chickadee
08-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Well I'm not the best judge because I've only done Seymour out of the Sewards and i'm still misssing couchie. Let's all do the hurricane dance so Ernesto stays off the coast so I can change that this weekend.
So for what it's worth.
I thought Seymour was pretty easy (darn I must be sick or just getting used to scrambling in mud over boulders).
I've made three trips to the Dixes with some duplication of peaks. I found the climb up Dix long and steep. I found the rest of the Dix range a lot of fun, thoroughly enjoyable. For me no matter whether you add in Dix by climibng it first or climbing it last, either way you have to deal with a very steep hard on the knees up or down. Without having to make that final climb over to Dix, the range is awesome because then you can return via the slide.
The Santas just have that horribly long road slog back to the car and the stream going up seems to be endless. Once on top it's a lot of fun.
So until I finish them off, I can't vote.
AlpineSummit
08-29-2006, 10:10 AM
Ok I changed my mind.
It's the Gasherbrums - hands down.
I guess it really depends upon when you hike them and what condition you're in, and how many you do at once. Trying to be objective about it, I guess I'd vote for the Sewards.
mike1889
08-29-2006, 01:48 PM
I think the Sewards are slightly harder than the Santas, with the Dixes quite a bit easier than both. I guess it depends on the conditions and how I felt on the days I did the peaks.
ADKatie
08-29-2006, 02:04 PM
I vote Dixes because they broke me. Literally. Physically.
I was going to vote based on how many tears I shed in the range, but then realized I shed more in the Dix's due to the fact that I got broken, so that was an unfair comparison.
I did flip Emmons the bird and DETESTED that traverse all the way back to Seward and down, but I can't say it was hard, just long and dull. Maybe Seymour was what saved the range for me?
Dixes. Up and down and up and down and up up up and down and up and down down straight DOWN, are you kidding me with this? Oh, thanks for the busted hand, just when I thought I was free and clear and on the home stretch.
randomscooter
08-29-2006, 02:14 PM
I've done all these ranges in eleven months of the year, and I keep putting off doing the twelfth. I guess that means I find them all challenging. The best measure I can come up with is the "pre-hike jitters" scale. On that basis hands down its the Sewards.
It is tough to really pick just 1 range as the toughest, since it depends on the time of the year. The Dix range is decent to follow with the herd paths and the maintained trail from Elk to Dix . Dix range in the winter time is tough but feels more managable as the range seems to be more defined with the trails to Dix.
For me personally it would be the Seward Range.
The Sewards are very difficult in the winter time if there is no packed trail, the long road in and out certainly adds much more milage.
Mark Schaefer
08-29-2006, 02:59 PM
I have only hiked all three ranges on ideal summer days so none of them were particularly difficult. Once up on the ridge by either the Great Grace or Macomb slide the rest of the Dix hike is just clockwork on the herd paths with a trail descent. I did the Santas and the Sewards late summer to avoid the mud and bugs so neither was bad. I did all three ranges with an at elevation bivouac (when it was legal) to split the hikes over two days, so none of them seemed like a slog.
My vote is Sewards (including Seymour) because of the two 2K climbs (I never did the pass whack). When I did both Sewards and Santas in the early 1990s the herd path descriptions in the McMartin book were tack on. Whenever there was a doubt, the book had the right answer every time - it was almost too easy. If Seymour is not in the definition then it is a toss-up.
MattC
08-29-2006, 03:12 PM
Another vote for the Sewards. The only one of out the three ranges I overnighted (so far) and the only one I made two trips to (also so far-I intend to hike all the High Peaks again over the years, probably several times).
I agree with Mark's point about the two large climbs for the Sewards-this is assuming we're counting Seymour as one of that range. The other ranges in question have only one major climb, then many ups and downs. I didn't find the Dix Range all that difficult, although the climb up Dix from the Hough and the schlog back to Elk Lake weren't exactly easy either.
I do agree that a lot is subjective, and condition-dependent. I'd be curious to see if anyone has the objective numbers for the three ranges-elevation gain, mileage, etc.
Matt
masshysteria
08-29-2006, 08:27 PM
A vote for the Sewards here, especially if you can do all 4 at once (yours truly did NOT). Plus I utilized the Caulkins Brook route, which I felt made the day much easier.
Of the 3, I would say the Dixes were the easiest. But I can certainly feel For Katie voting them as the hardest. Remind me Katie, how far did you have to walk back with a broken hand? I remember Dix Pond being mentioned. :?:
AlpineSummit
08-29-2006, 08:38 PM
Tom,
The little whiner only broke her pinky.........
ADKatie
08-29-2006, 08:42 PM
Remind me Katie, how far did you have to walk back with a broken hand? I remember Dix Pond being mentioned. :?:
You've got it right, Dix Pond was where the "incident in question" occurred. Well, just a few feet before you get to the junction there. So what is that, about 3 or so miles to the Elk Lake Lodge parking lot?
In pain, in shock, in the dark, and unsure exactly how far I had yet to go, one of the hardest things I have ever done.
You've got it right, Dix Pond was where the "incident in question" occurred. Well, just a few feet before you get to the junction there. So what is that, about 3 or so miles to the Elk Lake Lodge parking lot?
In pain, in shock, in the dark, and unsure exactly how far I had yet to go, one of the hardest things I have ever done.
Been there, done that...sort of.. On Noonmark trail. Difference was I broke my wrist. Of course, it was daylight, and I was only a mile from the car.
Mavs00
08-29-2006, 09:28 PM
Tom,
The little whiner only broke her pinky.........
Argh, ye are never to be splitting ure tongue at me fine lass no more you son of a Biscuit Eater.
Ummmm, that's mean "please be nice to the pretty lady" in pirate :D
Oh yeah, my vote. The south "V" of the western Fishing Brook Range (the one that contains #3, #4, #5 and #6). OTOH, we didn't get to see all that much of it before turning tail and running.
LionRoar
08-31-2006, 01:02 PM
The three aformentioned ranges are among my favorites. I lead hikes to each range, each summer or fall and rather enjoy each outing. Often I like to see how the area has been affected by the weather, i.e. blowdowns.
I don't understand why people -- not on this board per se -- continue to complain about how 'this trail was awful' and 'the balsams were in my eyes' or 'the nettles were too thick' and so forth. Isn't hiking supposed to be fun? Don't we go into the woods to be enjoy ourselves? Or is it about finding the lesser of all tortures: Nettles or work? (hint: jewelweed really works)
I hiked Emmons last week and it was a gorgeous day; I hiked Couchsachraga a month ago and it was a wonderful hike. And I will hike them again and again.
For the fun of it.
1ADAM12
08-31-2006, 01:11 PM
The three aformentioned ranges are among my favorites. I lead hikes to each range, each summer or fall and rather enjoy each outing. Often I like to see how the area has been affected by the weather, i.e. blowdowns.
I don't understand why people -- not on this board per se -- continue to complain about how 'this trail was awful' and 'the balsams were in my eyes' or 'the nettles were too thick' and so forth. Isn't hiking supposed to be fun? Don't we go into the woods to be enjoy ourselves? Or is it about finding the lesser of all tortures: Nettles or work? (hint: jewelweed really works)
I hiked Emmons last week and it was a gorgeous day; I hiked Couchsachraga a month ago and it was a wonderful hike. And I will hike them again and again.
For the fun of it.
AMEN to that :tup:
AlpineSummit
08-31-2006, 02:21 PM
Lion, I'm with you. I cringe when folks say that, for instance Macomb, is 'so much better now that's it's been maintained'. In my opinion, racetracks to the summit are a darn shame. I preferred the days when you lost a herd path half a dozen times each way and wiggle under and over countless obstacles. That was FUN.
Some folks would want a tote road to each summit
pete_hickey
08-31-2006, 03:35 PM
One thing that makes some of them easier, is that they can be broken into multiple day trips. It is sort of tough to do that with the Sewards.... at least it was tough by the traditional route.
When I did those three in winter, I didn't attempt the Dixes in a single day. That made it easier. I tried (but didn'T expect) to get the Santi-group in a day. Then again, the extra few miles going in (winter) really add to the Sewards.
Non-winter, I've done all 3, 4, and 5 of each in a single day. I don'T find AS MUCH of a difference as in the winter, but I think I'd still say the Sewards.
Lion just demonstrated why he is on this forum. :)
When I first came to the ADK's and started my first go-round I read about how ba-a-a-d it was in the Sewards, doing Allen, Bradley Pond trail etc. etc. Then when I got there I couldn't help wonder what all the commotion was about. Welllll, Bradley Pond maybe...:D
Sorry Alpine, but I just loved that new trail to Macomb's slide! But hey, any time you want to make things more "interesting" then I'll go with you to the other slide further south. It looks like an equal opportunity bushwhack from that south summit to Macomb.
The funniest phrase: "I don't want to have to go back". If a person dosn't get to the summit (or to all of the summits) what would be better is to feel inclined to say, "lucky me, now I have a reason to go back".
mudhook
08-31-2006, 04:18 PM
Haven't done any of these yet, but I'm really looking foward to them. Here in the Cats the closest we have to them is the Bushwack Range: Friday ,Balsam Cap, Rocky,and Lone where I've heard the statement " I'll never have to come here again " several times. Each time I go back theres something different and wonderful to see or experience. A difficult trip one time can be easy the next, depending on conditions and how accurate you are with map and compass, (herd paths don't exist for the most part.) And thank god for nettles, they really keep the crowds down.
So the only question for myself is Which ones first.
timmus
08-31-2006, 04:28 PM
I don't understand why people -- not on this board per se -- continue to complain about how 'this trail was awful' and 'the balsams were in my eyes' or 'the nettles were too thick' and so forth. Isn't hiking supposed to be fun? Don't we go into the woods to be enjoy ourselves?
That means if one day I hike with you, and you get a stick in your eye (or somewhere else), I'm gonna hear you scream ''Oh nice, that was so much fun !'' ???
:D :D
People who say those things (like me) are just talking about the bad sides as much as the good sides of their hike. And yes, sometimes we like to make it look worse, so we kinda feel tough, and strong (and then stupid :oops: ).
But sometimes it is true, hiking can get very painful. I don't necessarily go in the woods to enjoy myself. Sometimes I go for the challenge, or to escape my ordinary life.
I'm in the Seward camp and in the struggle is the fun camp and in the Jewel Weed really does work camp. Why just last night was the first time that I'd ever heard of the trick and made use of it. Unfortunately, there wasn't any around the second, third, fourth and fifth time that I hit the nettles--back to the suffering is fun.
adkdremn
08-31-2006, 07:06 PM
I've only been to the Sewards and I loved them.....part of that was the company. ;) In fact I loved them so much I thought to myself how fun it would be to do them in the winter! Although, I don't ski, so that long walk in looks rather daunting!
For me, I get more excited about these less traveled areas that are harder to get to. There's just something about them that makes them special.
LionRoar-
Very well said, I agree with all those sentiments totally!
masshysteria
08-31-2006, 07:35 PM
I'm in the Seward camp and in the struggle is the fun camp and in the Jewel Weed really does work camp. Why just last night was the first time that I'd ever heard of the trick and made use of it. Unfortunately, there wasn't any around the second, third, fourth and fifth time that I hit the nettles--back to the suffering is fun.
Talk to me, what trick with jewelweed? Those SOB nettles get me Every time we float down the "Housy' to fish! Last Saturday, we put in at 2:00 PM, and my leg brushed up against a nettle. At 7:30 when we pulled out, it still was tingling. My fishing partner and I have always worried that if something happened to the johnboat, and we had to hoof it through the nettle-lined fields to reach safety, we'd be in sad shape.
Pants would be an obvious answer, but there are a half a dozen shallow gravel banks where we have to get into the water and pull the boat over the rocks. Not to mention the heat factor of sitting in a metal boat with the sun broiling overhead, and you're fighting smallies all day.
masshysteria
08-31-2006, 07:38 PM
But hey, any time you want to make things more "interesting" then I'll go with you to the other slide further south. It looks like an equal opportunity bushwhack from that south summit to Macomb.
I've mentioned it before Neil, I'd be on that one in a heartbeat. Say when!
AlpineSummit
08-31-2006, 08:04 PM
Tell ya what, we did it by accident 25 yrs ago this past May.
Right mountain, wrong slide. Loved it just the same.
Remember when the water was real rusty in those brooks?
Anyway, if you plan a trip I'd love to go with you.
Pretty sweet stuff.
pete_hickey
08-31-2006, 08:29 PM
The south slide is somewhat different.... Cleaner... with a nice cliff (headwall) at the top. 10 or so years ago, it was thck getting to it... 7 years ago, Floyd hit. Getting to it now, is TOUGH.
Boreal Chickadee
08-31-2006, 08:39 PM
Talk to me, what trick with jewelweed?
Tom- The juice in the jewelweed's stem is a well known field remedy for any skin irritation. Just break off a piece of stem and rub the broken end on your skin. Immediately soothing.
Tom- The juice in the jewelweed's stem is a well known field remedy for any skin irritation. Just break off a piece of stem and rub the broken end on your skin. Immediately soothing.
I was told to simply rub the leaves on the affected area and it seemed to work, however, a quick google search affirms Boreal Chickadee's method.
Tom, I'm surprised the nettles itch bothered you that long. Did you scratch the affected area? That will make it mutch worse. If you resist the urge to scratch , the irritation will pass in about 5 minutes. Of course, this is easier said than done.
Boreal Chickadee
09-01-2006, 10:00 AM
And if there's no jewelweed available we have found that Purell works wonders. I usually carry one of those tiny bottles.
1ADAM12
09-01-2006, 11:26 AM
And if there's no jewelweed available we have found that Purell works wonders. I usually carry one of those tiny bottles.
Purell hand sanitizer?
Boreal Chickadee
09-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Yes, the hand sanitizer. I personally prefer the unscented form.
We had gone thorugh a bad patch of nettles (I wear shorts right up to the coldest temperatures), were desperate and that's all I could find. It helped, as I remember, even more than jewelweed. Maybe the pain only lasts five minutes if you get a little brush but we had suffered much longer than that before I tried the Purell. Ah, the joy of instant relief. I can't remember if I had to reapply or not.
mudhook
09-01-2006, 03:55 PM
I've tried Jewel weed many times and it only seems to add insult to injury. I have noticed that if i'm sweating and working hard on an uphill push , the nettles don't bother as much, if at all. I'll try the purell for the down hills.
masshysteria, I'd probaly swim all the way to the ocean and then get out on the beach before wading thru nettles no matter how well the fish were biting. Or wait until the river froze and climb out over the ice.
masshysteria
09-01-2006, 05:21 PM
My Saviors! I may just run out now through a patch of the bast&%$s and give it a test. Perhaps I am semi-allergic to them, that might explain the longer reaction time. Mudhook, your suggestion is tempting, however, there is an issue in the Housatonic with PCB's. Everything is catch and release, plus it's a good 130+ miles from here to the ocean (Long Island Sound). Just a tad beyond my water treading abilities. Thanks for the suggestions!
Boreal Chickadee
09-01-2006, 08:19 PM
I may have even put the Purell on a baby wipe and wiped down our legs. That would also clean the skin off. Really don't remember exactly. I truly ahte them and have been much more careful since that day when Paul was about ready to bail out he hurt so much.
mastergrasshopper
09-02-2006, 11:22 PM
cleaner, longer, cool headwall.used to be decent herd path to left of headwall that led over south summit.Very nice in winter.My son did this as his last 46 in winter and fell on veraglass on headwall rocks.He self arrested and slid a ways but was ok.We came down the other slide that had a packed trail.I've only been to south slide once since 99 and it was thick and hard to find bottom of slide.
mastergrasshopper
mastergrasshopper
09-02-2006, 11:29 PM
Oh I forgot to vote.Sewards with seymour.The dix range from 73 up great grace slide and out rd pond 2nd.and then the santas (couch isn't that hard!!!)
mastergrasshopper
LionRoar
09-03-2006, 10:21 PM
My Saviors! I may just run out now through a patch of the bast&%$s and give it a test. Perhaps I am semi-allergic to them, that might explain the longer reaction time. Thanks for the suggestions!
I was hiking in July in shorts and was stuck in nettles. I looked around and jewelweed grown in and among the nettles. I rubbed some on my legs (I was wearing shorts) and I was able to walk for an hour. Now, Jewelweed doesn't work on open sores, especially brier cuts, but band-aids do and I kept the stinging to a minimum.
The stinging of the nettle is crystals found on the underside of the leaf. Purell -- must carry some of that along, as well.
LionRoar
09-03-2006, 10:45 PM
That means if one day I hike with you, and you get a stick in your eye (or somewhere else), I'm gonna hear you scream ''Oh nice, that was so much fun !'' ???
:D :D
But sometimes it is true, hiking can get very painful. I don't necessarily go in the woods to enjoy myself. Sometimes I go for the challenge, or to escape my ordinary life.
Challenges are fine. People need challenges as it enables one to test and exceed their limits. But, challenges can be fun as well, especially while in the midst of the blowdown, while working one's way up the slide or even trying to figure out the way over an impenetrable icy section.
What I didn't say in my 9-1 TR was that I bashed my head against a coupla overhanging trees, scraped my thighs on broken tree limbs, couldn't climb over a couple of cliffs and tripped and took a nasty fall where I scraped my arms against the cold, cruel, senseless rock; yes, it was a challenge and, yes my feet hurt on the way out. However, I'm grateful that I am able to enjoy the woods in spite of lumps and bumps. I'll go out, again.
joseywalesb
09-06-2006, 09:15 AM
This is like the greatest thread ever... I love hearing about injuries and tails from climbing. More threads should be like this. This thread was why I joined this forum. I've got one for ya's. On one of my more recent muddy hikes, the mud seaped in over my boots, the sand wore at the sides of the boots on my ankles, after about 10 miles, it literally wore away the skin on the sides, and from coming downhill I lost 3 toenails, then the infection set in where the skin was worn away, almost down to the bone on the ankles. Don'tcha just love the challenge of it all??? I probably won't remember all the nice quiet times I spent up in the mountains after a while, but I'll remember things like that. Isn't this what it's all about? Memories???
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