vftt trip report for Allen mtn

[hillman1]

Anyone see it? A recent one that states a bushwack route that made the round trip in 3 hours, then includes the guys phone number if you want details. Think he was trespassing?

[randomscooter]

I know a few VERY fast hikers who can beat 6 hours, but 3? I don't think so. He must've driven in the club roads, okay for members or guests. The phone number is a local one (Keene area). I'm not sure what if anything that has to do with it though. Maybe I'll look the guy up.

[randomscooter]

I just noticed his e-mail address is adirondackmountainguides.com. I.e., this trip report is a frickin' advertisement. He's obviously dangling bait for prospective clientelle. Shiftless, just plain shiftless. I'd never do anything like that :D

[Mavs00]

Sure, he bought himself a membership to **** ***** Club and will shuttle you in the short route for a mere $165 per person (http://adirondackmountainguides.com/rates.html). Figure $140 after expenses, so he pretty much has to get 3 sucke.... errr, I'm mean hikers to take him up and he starts turning a profit.

There several keyed gates to get through, so I doupt he bootlegging it.

It knocks off 15 miles (flat walking) and perhaps 7 hours of the trip, so it's pretty costly at $23 per hour, but I bet he'll get someone will pay.

I agree, buying access rights from private club in order to hike or get closer to certain mountain..... Scandalous :rolleyes:

I know a few VERY fast hikers who can beat 6 hours

Allen, in under 6 hours, surely you jest, you'd have to run most of the way out. If you dropped something from your pack, you wouldn't even have time bend over and pick it up. Only someone like Pin Pin (or those of his ilk) could dream of something like that :D

[1ADAM12]

Thanks for the info. I saw the post and wondered what was going on.
Lets see how quickly we can delete it.

:twisted:

I wondered about that myself 3 hours!!!!!! Your right he is advertising. Go get him peakbagr :D

[Willie]

According to the so-called trail condition report, on May 29th, the trail to Allen "was muddy in some spots but overall, in very good shape."

Well, on the 27th, there was plenty of mud from trailhead to summit, the slide was a stream, the slippery slim was doing what it does best, and the round trip took just over 10 hours.

[Grumpy]

Without wanting to be cantankerous, an urge to ask the following question has turned out to be irresistable:

Don't you suspect, just a little bit around the edges, that this questionable "advertisement" for a guided or supported hike up Allen is something of a response to demand? And the demand is wrought in significant measure by the emphasis on lists and peakbagging in these forums? Has peakbagging turned into a competitive, goal-oriented thing in which the end -- a completed "list" -- is as or more important than the activity involved in getting there? Has the destination been made more important than the journey? Has the impression been created that completing lists is what "real" hikers do, and those who don't are second-raters? Etc.?

Just wondering. Aren't you?

G.

[Mavs00]

Not sure G. from a forums perspective.

Went to the 46er meeting and the majority present (as typical), were new "inductees" fresh from completion. While I surely had 15-20 people approach me and specifically mention this site, to the overwhelming majority I was simply another stranger and ADKhighpeaks held zero meaning for them, as I bet VFTT of ADKforum didn't eitherl. Including the 2 new 46ers at my table, and their families (great people I might add), who'd never heard of any of us.

While it's easy, and a little flattering I suppose, to overstate "our" impact, its not always an overly accurate gauge to our significance within the great scheme of the Adirondack hiking population. While there surely are some important and knowledgeable people here, the site itself holds no sway in the arena. We may be a boisterous, easily noticed passenger, but we surely don't drive the ship that steers Adirondack behavior.

Not that that would be bad, as at least we can say that for those that DO come here to learn about the mountains, peakbagging, ect. will also get continually drilled with the messages about responsible backcountry behavior by such wise sages as Pete_Hickey, yourself, Neil........ et al. That can't be a bad thing :tup:

[randomscooter]

I certainly believe it's a response to demand. I also believe the demand has always been present, and that forums such as VFTT provide a tempting new avenue for entrepreneurs to advertise. I say tempting because I believe although there's a potential large clientelle it's a no-no to do so on VFTT (at least I'm pretty sure Darren would agree). But if some other website wanted to allow advertising for guide services I wouldn't make a peep. It's their choice.

[TFR]

I think it's simpler than that.

We're lazy! :eek:

Even though most of us are in reasonably good shape, we're still looking for an easier way, especially when the shortest way is 18-20 miles!

People used to drive or take the bus to Lower Ausable Lake, or points along the way. It was easier than walking. How many people started from the parking lot back then? Some, I imagine, but not very many.

Most people who hike any mountain will hike the shortest route. You wouldn't start a climb up Mt. Marcy from Rt. 73 and bushwhack, would you? Ok, Neil might, but the rest of you normal people would head to the LOJ and follow the well-trodden paths! :D

Now people are looking for ways to shorten the trip to Allen. Can you blame them? Most of the first 5 miles is just a series of dirt roads, with little elevation gain. It's not mountain climbing, it's just accessing the peak. The people who went with this guide still had to climb the peak.

I'll admit the idea of joining a club or hiring a guide has crossed my mind before, but so far, I'm still 'pure'. :D OK, I have been dropped off at the tennis courts at AMR, is that allowed in the purist's book? :D

[ADKatie]

Allen, in under 6 hours, surely you jest, you'd have to run most of the way out. If you dropped something from your pack, you wouldn't even have time bend over and pick it up. Only someone like Pin Pin (or those of his ilk) could dream of something like that :D

Hey, yeah! If you're super duper quick and determined to beat that record, and if you did happen to drop something (just speculating here) wouldn't it be funny if you just left it there, zoomed out to beat the record, and THEN went back for the dropped items? WOW, that would be amazing! I think I dreamt that actually happened. Dreams are pretty wild sometimes, aren't they? Wish I had them guts.

[randomscooter]

Hey, yeah! If you're super duper quick and determined to beat that record, and if you did happen to drop something (just speculating here) wouldn't it be funny if you just left it there, zoomed out to beat the record, and THEN went back for the dropped items? WOW, that would be amazing! I think I dreamt that actually happened. Dreams are pretty wild sometimes, aren't they? Wish I had them guts.
You and Tim are so high on mountain air you're dreaming CRAZY STUFF!!! :D

[Mark Schaefer]

Lest we forget the Marshall brothers were wealthy city boys who made use of an Adirondack guide, and they were no slackers. No doubt other 46ers have used guides. There is no shame in it, nor is it a new trend under the pressure to complete a list.

Some perhaps always climbed the 46 on club outings or with groups. Others chose to do them solo. Some hike on the coldest day of the year or hottest day of summer, or during the worst mud or black fly season. Some hike in a downpour, and some only hike on nice days. Some cram as many peaks into a day hike or backpack, and some climb only a few at a time. Some will chose a difficult whack up Cascade, so why not a an easy hike up Allen if you can? Whatever floats your boots is fine.

Grace was once asked if it would count if someone stayed at one of the private camps near Allen and did a short hike up. Her answer was that is was no problem provided they hiked up and down under their own power. It is not much different than a member of the AMR using an interior cabin at the Lower Ausable Lake as a base camp. Who wouldn't jump at that opportunity if you got an invitation from an AMR member to stay over?

[hillman1]

I had no idea it was a guide situation, I thought it was someone that was very crafty at getting in on those roads. I'm going legal for the north river mtns, and it will surely be alot longer than 3 hours. I didn't mean to start a new crazy thread--sorry. I was just making a late night observation on something I thought was quite miraculous...I have heard about the 6 hour trip, but 3 seemed very strange.

[eddie]

Trail running for 3 hours from the state land on the Hanging Spear Falls trail to the summit and back is not unreasonable and is probably doable.

[Willie]

Trail running for 3 hours from the state land on the Hanging Spear Falls trail to the summit and back is not unreasonable and is probably doable.
eddie, you're smokin' fry, again, man.http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/forum/images/smilies/00000027r.gif

[Antlerpeak]

I had no idea it was a guide situation, I thought it was someone that was very crafty at getting in on those roads. I'm going legal for the north river mtns, and it will surely be alot longer than 3 hours. I didn't mean to start a new crazy thread--sorry. I was just making a late night observation on something I thought was quite miraculous...I have heard about the 6 hour trip, but 3 seemed very strange.

I hadn't heard about the six hour trip, nor the supposed three hour trip until I saw this thread. Six hours I could believe as my buddy and I did it in 6 hrs and 40 minutes and were not trying for any records but after the fact learned people in the ADK Club believed it was. If we were trying for a record we could have done it in less time that day, (7/10/77) Ouch that was a long time ago. Grace said in response "so what!" You have to love her I agreed completely we didn't have any more fun on that trip than on others that took longer.

In June of 1979 a member of the East River Rod and Gun Club drove a group of us into his camp which was beyond the old Twin Brook Lean-to. We climbed Allen from there and then spent the night. Three hours round trip? It could have been but so what. The next day he drove us over to the lean-to. If any of you are familiar with the old lean-to and the Twin Brook trail you know there is a dirt road dissected by the trail just north of the lean-to. The trail followed it a short distance before leaving it. Well anyway we put a new roof on the dilapitated old structure and trucked out the old shingles. So I can readily believe that a 3 hr round trip from that deep in is likely possible but still a push. From the lean-to area it is appx 8 miles up and back so three hours is doable but not a slam dunk.

Anyway even if they did it in three hours the supposed six hour record from the trail head would still stand. In short who cares about records? I believe peakbagging is something to enjoy for the pleasure of being in the woods and holding the beauty and discoveries you make along the way. In my mind anyone who wants to turn this into a rat race is missing the point and is only proving they can't leave the competitive everyday world behind. So go ahead do the 46 in three days the 48 in four with any luck you can be a 111er in ten days. To quote the Shania Twain song "that don't impress me."

[lumberzac]

Well, I’ll be hiking up Allen tomorrow. I’ll be going the traditional route, and plan to take my time. No record setting for me.

[Antlerpeak]

Have a safe trip and bring plenty of water it is supposed to be hot.

[1ADAM12]

Well, I’ll be hiking up Allen tomorrow. I’ll be going the traditional route, and plan to take my time. No record setting for me.

Taking his time......lol Taking his time is still doing it in 7 hours....I call him the ZAC RABBIT not the LUMBERZAC :D

[masshysteria]

Well, I’ll be hiking up Allen tomorrow. I’ll be going the traditional route, and plan to take my time. No record setting for me.



Zac's got it straight. If you speed hike, you're not going to see the great things along the way. No looking for the big bucketmouth that has to be living under the Lake Jimmy bridge, check out the abandoned cabin, feast on raspberries, enjoy Skylight and Allen Brooks, etc.

The chances of missing key turn-offs increases also, but rumor has it the slow and plodding can miss a turn sign here and there too.....

[AlpineSummit]

The short way:
I did this once a couple of summers ago, starting from the East River Club. Imagine: Less than 30 mins to Allen Falls!!!! It was MAGICAL! And the big benefit was that I could lounge and RELAX on the summit because the walk out was going to be so short. Normally in the back of my head is the thought "Yea, enjoy yourself but don't get too comfy - You have have 9 miles to walk back to the car"
I've been up to Allen 6 or 7 times now and had good weather & company most every time, but that trip was a gem!

[TFR]

... East River Club. Their policy specifically forbids members to use their membership as a guide service to have people pay members to access peaks that are on their leasehold.
I get the point of the rule, but the Allen summit is on state land, correct?