Missed summits?

[Neil]

Rather than completely redirect/hijack the Sentinel TR thread I thought I'd start a new one about missing the summit. Either yourself or stories about it.

Last summer Prino and I strolled into Spencers backyard all pleased with ourselves after doing a Saddleback to Jay whack. First question Spencer (or Brian) asked was, "did you sign the cannister on Saddleback?" Stopped us dead in our tracks.

Then last summer Rik, Charlene, Dominic and I are enjoying the views from Donaldson. The previous winter I did Donaldson and had counted it as a winter peak. I realized we had not enjoyed the particular views that we were taking in that day and said so to Rik. "What, you never saw that trail marker there?" We were on the other lookout, never did tag the summit.


Our second winter peak, Couch. Two guys are on their way back, maybe 30 minutes from the summit. Lengthy explanation ensues about how they were "real" sure they went to the actual summit. Their tracks turned around about 15 minutes from the true summit.

A really funny thing was when Sylvie, Prino and I were on Cascade. This guy points over to Porter and asks,"Is that a 4 thousand footer?" Yes, we say. In a resigned voice he goes, "Oh. Well ok, I guess I'll go climb it." Cracked us up.

[Mavs00]

Okay, as embarassed as I am, it's detailed -HERE- (http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16857&postcount=2)

Not sure what embarasses me more the actual incident or the fact that I gave Neil and Phil so much $HIT for missing Saddleback (Jay Range) summit. Perfect reminder, don't throw stones ;)

[pete_hickey]

There are a couple of the 46 which are frequently missed. One of them on cloudy days, the other... well, it is sometimes missed.

On a cloudy day, climbing (and descending) Colden via Lake Arnold, people sometimes think that first peak is the summit. Think about it. It is somewhat bald, everything descends after. It sure looks like a summit. I remember one time, descending from COlden, and seeing about a dozen people sitting there, thinking it was the summit. I mentioned that it was not, some said "Ahhhh.." and started hiking, while there was one small group that said, "Its good enough for us."

The other one, is Upper Wolfjaw. People climbing one or two wolfjaws from the notch, and not getting Armstrong, sometimes think the first bump is the summit.

[Mavs00]

On a cloudy day, climbing (and descending) Colden via Lake Arnold, people sometimes think that first peak is the summit. Think about it. It is somewhat bald, everything descends after. It sure looks like a summit. I remember one time, descending from COlden, and seeing about a dozen people sitting there, thinking it was the summit. I mentioned that it was not, some said "Ahhhh.." and started hiking, while there was one small group that said, "Its good enough for us."

Good point, look for the rock, it'll aways keep you right

http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/albums1/colden2/IMG_0023.sized.jpg
and;
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/albums1/colden/200208231902217_G.sized.jpg

[pete_hickey]

That rock... The one you can see from Avalanche Pass... One of these years, I feel like going up there with a rock bar, and rolling that thing off the edge.

Wouldn't that make one heck of a splash hitting the lake?

[peak_bgr]

Pete-I Maddi and I were thinking the same thing. When do you want to go?? :twisted:

[Neil]

Hahaha! Check this.


http://www.neil.webcentre.ca/outdoor%20pursuits/colden%20slide%20story/pics/dom%20sky%20intro.jpg
And this`:

http://www.neil.webcentre.ca/outdoor%20pursuits/colden1990/100_2667.html

[mikeharo]

This past Thanksgiving, I got confused at the actual Porter Summit. After Cascade in the foul weather, anything was good enough. Then I got out the gps, the note cards and the map and made sure.

[pete_hickey]

...And this`:

http://www.neil.webcentre.ca/outdoor%20pursuits/colden1990/100_2667.html

That's a common picture. The rock seems to lend itself to it.

[Skyclimber]

There are a couple of the 46 which are frequently missed. One of them on cloudy days, the other... well, it is sometimes missed.

.


I also think Cliff and Couchsachraga also falls into that catergory.

[Mark Schaefer]

There are a couple of the 46 which are frequently missed. One of them on cloudy days, the other... well, it is sometimes missed. I have seen a trail report where the hiker admitted to missing Dial when just hiking in and back from Elk Pass rather than doing a traverse.

[pete_hickey]

What is the summit of Dial? Both the 1953 amn 1979 metric maps show the two bumps as having the same hight.

I also think Cliff and Couchsachraga also falls into that catergory. In general, the trailless peaks are marked. These other ones are not. In the canister days, Cliff and Couch would never be missed. There was a period of a few years when signs would disappear, but these days, they seem to be staying.

[Skyclimber]

What is the summit of Dial? Both the 1953 amn 1979 metric maps show the two bumps as having the same hight.

In general, the trailless peaks are marked. These other ones are not. In the canister days, Cliff and Couch would never be missed. There was a period of a few years when signs would disappear, but these days, they seem to be staying.

They are still missed.

I remember asking a hiker before about the view on Cliff, commenting about the nice view of Colden there. They said, Cliff "sucked," it had no view, I asked if they went down the depression and went up the next bump. They said they had not, but that they were still counting it and not reclimbing it! They thought they were there. Even with the signs they still don't always make the top and feel that the false bump is the top.

Couchsachraga has a false bump that many feel are the top. In the canister era they would just claim that never found the canister. I seen tracks stopping short of the summit.

[neighbor]

first time i ever climbed mount adams(white mountains nh)sometime in the early 80's, it was winter and socked in. visibility was maybe 200 feet. we headed up from grey knob and got to adams 4 ,it's a very small bump but when on top it goes down on every side. we thought we had summited. took the obligatory photos and went back to the cabin. ha ha next time we went up adams we got to adams 4 and looked to the left there was the real summit about 1 mile away!!! :drop:
still have those photos somewhere. :oops:

[peak_bgr]

I bet there are few hikers out there that missed Upper Wolf Jaw-stopping at the first bump from Wolf Jaw Notch. I know if I wasn't hiking through to Armstrong I would have turned back thinking I got it.

[JoeCedar]

As of last month, there is a very nice sign (routed and painted lettering, not the DEC-type) and trail marker on Couchie's summit. "Can't miss it".

Joe

[Dory]

My sister, husband and I missed it in September. We were doing the Gothics/Armstrong/Upper Jaw loop and decided to run up Saddleback quickly...we turned around after we started descending into the 'saddle' DUH! We realized our mistake that evening reading the guidebook.
Amy and I wrangled that summit this winter, however! Our first winter summit YAY!
On that same trip we intentionally turned back only around 20 min. from Big Slide summit because of Amy's cold feet.

TR from winter saddleback (http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11912)

pics from Saddleback (http://community.webshots.com/album/548802853EPLLNZ)

[Silverback]

Nye was mine. Climbed it first in late May, Walked past the S/N intersection a few hundred yards and the herd path seemed to end in a patch of snow. Figured I was there. Didn't attempt Street that day because of the late hour.

This was fortunate because the next year I climbed to the same spot on the way to Street and realized that I was 200 yards away from the true summit the previous year.

I would have gone to 46er heaven as a fraud, had I not discovered my error :cry:

Now this may seem dumb, but the only other one I ever had any doubt about was Phelps. I never found a summit marker, but wandered well in to the woods on the backside descent. I do remember having lunch with the blackflies on the open ledge.

Please tell me I made it!

[Mavs00]

Please tell me I made it!

You did ;)

[Mark Schaefer]

What is the summit of Dial? Both the 1953 amn 1979 metric maps show the two bumps as having the same hight. The 4020' (1220m) summit closer to Nippletop is "the other, southerly peak considered part of the Nippletop Ridge." (i.e. a false summit of Nippletop, according to the current 2004 ADK guide). It is one of several ridge bumps or pimples that are more than 0.75 mile from Nippletop. It is a classic illustration of why distance criteria should not be used in peak lists -- which, if any bumps do you include. Since two have the same height, the best case perhaps is the one with largest rise from Nippletop: 220' (1953), 60m (1976) - the northern summit.

Since the 46er list is a historic list, and does not change with later maps, the question is which summit did the Marshall brothers consider to be Dial. This was many years after the dispute between Alfred Street and Orson Phelps over the names of Nippletop and Dial. Dial was on the 1895 USGS Mount Marcy quad (http://docs.unh.edu/NY/mrcy95se.jpg). The more southerly summit only had a rise of 40' on that map. The Marshall brothers undoubtedly would have used the Dial shown on the map. All subsequent editions of the USGS maps agree - the northern summit.

[pete_hickey]

Good answer Mark. Most people give the correct answer, for the wrong reason. "It has a view."

[Mavs00]

Dial was on the 1895 USGS Mount Marcy quad (http://docs.unh.edu/NY/mrcy95se.jpg). The more southerly summit only had a rise of 40' on that map. The Marshall brothers undoubtedly would have used the Dial shown on the map. All subsequent editions of the USGS maps agree - the northern summit.

Excellent deduction, and I agree. In Carsons Peaks and People (which in religious terms, would be considered Genesis for the 46 peaks), Dial is given a scant 2 pages, mostly dedicated to the naming and first ascents. No mention is made of a South Dial. Although, this alone may not mean anything, as there are several other other peaks like Sawteeth, that have prominent knobs that could be mistaken for the summit that are not mentioned either.

However Jim Goodwin who wrote the chapter on the peaks in the 46er book Of the summits, of the forests seems to have, logically, taken Carson's information and added to it with updated facts, etc. HE DOES mentions things like the "the Rifle Notch" and North Peak of Colden, ect. For Dial he does not make ANY reference to S. Dial. I guess you could deduce that it was never a controversy in the minds of the early climbers.

Ohhhhhh...... My vote for confusing summit (other than Porter :oops: ). Resagone ;) , coming from up the Scenic way anyhow. If not confusing so much, then disheartening, I remember getting up to the "Notch", tongue dragging on the ground, thinking "thank god, I'm there". Only to have my son CRUSH my spirits by announcing "Hey, I think we got to go over there" {point to real summit} UUUUUUUUGH. :eek:

[AlpineSummit]

I miss them all of the time.
Today I had to work and I missed every summit out there; badly.

[Inge]

It's been a looooong time!
You nailed it. :D
I miss them toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I hope Mrs. Alpine is well.

[AlpineSummit]

Hey there, nice lady!
Yea, I guess it HAS been awhile. My bad......

And Mrs. Alpine is well & sends best regards,, to both of you!

[Dick]

We didn't miss any of them, though we had doubts. Fortunately we did many during the "canister era" which left no doubt. We did miss a trailhead once, though. On our first trip into the Sewards, we followed the guidebook description, but didn't pay attention to the mileage. We parked at what we thought was the TH, but (you probably have guessed it) it was in fact the lot for the horse trail. The sign was down at the time, but the lot seemed to fit the description in other ways. Once on the trail we had a strange feeling. We then stepped right into some of that strange feeling, and shortly saw a couple of the four-legged creatures from whence cometh the source of that strange feeling.

I do remember a few head-scratching moments on Seymour, though we found the sign. One of my favs.

Dick

[Hikerdad]

Our most confusing (for awhile) was Hough....we came down from the Beckhorn and came to a big rock which I figured was the summit....I looked aound for the canister and didn't find one so I was confused...I might have found some holes in the rock (can't quite remember) that I thought was maybe where the canister had been (figured somebidy stole it). So then I made the big decision... I wasn't sure this was the summit so if we just continue past the "summit" we would obviously hit the real summit eventually and then we could just exit out the Lillian Brook path if went too far (yah, I knew that McMartin said not to use it because it was steep but hey we were HIKERS...) We didn't find another summit and we eventually hit what had to be the "camping" area in the Hough/Pough col. Then I figured, "Heck I'm not going all the way back" and down the herd path we went. Of course the descent was a nightmare and we ended up loosing the path and hiking the bottom half by wading right in the brook and got to camp about 8:00PM.....later I read about the blowdown and that of course they had taken the canisters out that year.....learned a lot on that hike....

[Charlie]

Well, we didn't miss them but also didn't know when we were on either of them at the time. Coming from Gothics, we had thought we were on Armstrong much sooner as well as Upper WJ because of the multiple bumps. We did the entire ridge as well as lower WJ so I know we hit them, just not sure when.

I could see missing Colden from the lake on a cloudy day because the false summit sure "resembles" a summit more than the true summit. But, I had the fortune to climb on a bluebird day. Another shot of the boulder (http://www.nyoutdoors.net/adk/McIntyre_Range_w_BrendanPan.jpg) -